What can we learn from the Bundy ranch situation?

[Gator Monroe]

If you are going to side track the conversation -

González's mother drowned in November 1999 while attempting to leave Cuba with her son and her boyfriend to get to the United States.[1][2] The U.S. <broken link removed> (INS) initially placed González with paternal relatives in Miami, who sought to keep him in the United States against his father's demands that González be returned to Cuba. A <broken link removed> 's ruling that only González's father, and not his extended relatives, could petition for <broken link removed> on the boy's behalf was upheld by the <broken link removed> . After the <broken link removed> declined to hear the case, federal agents seized González from his relatives and returned him to Cuba in June 2000.

He went home to live with his surviving parent - whats wrong with that? He was an illegal - I thought that the conservatives did not want illegals in this country. Kind of confused.

His Dad was an Abusive Deadbeat , his Mom Drowned getting him to the Beach in Florida ( Which once reached by Cubans made them legally able to stay ) His Uncle was middle Class and could have adopted him & raised him as an American , Elian's Father died after he was returned anyhoo , and Elian lived through the harsh Socialist system upon his return ...

 

[Gator Monroe]

Sayin that Bundys Legal issues made him the Bad Actor in all of this is sidetracking ...

 

[JRuby]

His Dad was an Abusive Deadbeat , his Mom Drowned getting him to the Beach in Florida ( Which once reached by Cubans made them legally able to stay ) His Uncle was middle Class and could have adopted him & raised him as an American , Elian's Father died after he was returned anyhoo , and Elian lived through the harsh Socialist system upon his return ...

It was his dad and wether he was a deadbeat is a matter of subjectiveness. Just landing on the beach in no way makes him a US citizen or any legal right to stay here. The fact that his dad died after he was returned to Cuba was not known to at the time he was sent back to Cuba. Nice try.

 

[JRuby]

Sayin that Bundys Legal issues made him the Bad Actor in all of this is sidetracking ...

He is the cause of the problems - or the catalyst - without hm there would be no need for the feds to have shown up in the first place. Bundy has been found to be illegally grazing his cattle by two court trials in which he lost over a 21 year period. The feds over did it but I highly suspect that asking politely wasnt going to move him off from land that he doesnt own but is taking advantage of for personal gain.

 

[Stomper]

Sure, blame the rape victim.

 

[JRuby]

In this case Bundy is not the victim but the criminal. He committed the crime.

 

[Jamie6.5]

He went home to live with his surviving parent - whats wrong with that? He was an illegal - I thought that the conservatives did not want illegals in this country. Kind of confused.

You "thought" wrong.
"Illegals" from cuba that manage to attain landfall on American shore are different than any other class or type of immigrant. They are given special consideration by the INS, and should be.
Except Elian Gonzales.
Janet Reno had her jack-booted thugs break down the door of the house where he was staying, before sunrise, using mace, pepper spray and the threat of real assault rifles on the inhabitants, and took him at gunpoint.
Only to return him to the communist confines of the castro regime, to become a puppet of the state.
I'm sure that's probably okay with the socialists and statists that will no-doubt vote for hillary should she run.

And the shadow of janet reno and her corrupt DOJ, including one eric holder, is still being cast like the specter of Waco, on freedom loving Americans to this day.

 

[JRuby]

So a child should not be returned to his legal parent?

 

[Jamie6.5]

So a child should not be returned to his legal parent?

If you ask Child Protective Services if a child should be returned to an abusive parent, or pair/set of parents, they will give you a resounding NO!
And they reiterate that stance daily in this country JG.
Don't be obtuse fer chrissakes. You're making strawman arguments for the sake of the argument itself.

 

[Martini_Up]

In this case Bundy is not the victim but the criminal. He committed the crime.

really? was there a warrant? arrest? conviction? constitution much?

 

[JRuby]

In thsi case the parent had a right to have his child returned to him - you are bing obtuse in my opinion. You dont get that just because you dont like the Cuba / Castro government does not give you or any other person the right to seperate a child from a prent unless the parent is considered unable to take care of that child for some reason. The type of government makes no difference.

 

[JRuby]

really? was there a warrant? arrest? conviction? constitution much?

He has two court trials where he lost and continues to disobey the courts - to me that makes him a criminal.

 

[Stomper]

In this case Bundy is not the victim but the criminal. He committed the crime.

Never said Bundy was a victim. Never said Bundy was a law abiding citizen, neither did the video. You said the whole "militia conflict" with combat kitted BLM agents would not have occurred if not for Bundy's actions.

What the contention is, there shouldn't have been COMBAT KITTED BLM AGENTS REGARDLESS OF THE IMPETUS IN THE FIRST PLACE, then you wouldn't have had citizen-militia showing up... PERIOD!

As for Elian Gonzalez.... Yeah, here's the trend being set by your (not so) awesome statist-progressive administrations... Remember this photo on a few front pages (some buried in the back pages)?



If just an INKLING of any of the crap that's been pulled under Obama had happened under GW Bush, ya'll would be screaming "murder, rape, civil rights, imperial presidency" from outter space where your logic resides.

 

[BigStick]

He has two court trials where he lost and continues to disobey the courts - to me that makes him a criminal.

Do you have a speeding or parking ticket? I guess you are a criminal too then.

If you truly think that the BLM response to a financial dispute, still being further adjudicated in court, was appropriate, then there really isn't much more anyone else here can say to you that will have any meaning. Thanks for some laughs anyway though.

 

[JRuby]

Do you have a speeding or parking ticket? I guess you are a criminal too then.

If you truly think that the BLM response to a financial dispute, still being further adjudicated in court, was appropriate, then there really isn't much more anyone else here can say to you that will have any meaning. Thanks for some laughs anyway though.

The difference is that I pay those tickets and fines when I get them. I dont wait 21 years and then pretend that the police have no authority or have armed guards protect me when I lose my right to drive due to not follow our laws in this country.

 

[JRuby]

Never said Bundy was a victim. Never said Bundy was a law abiding citizen, neither did the video. You said the whole "militia conflict" with combat kitted BLM agents would not have occurred if not for Bundy's actions.

What the contention is, there shouldn't have been COMBAT KITTED BLM AGENTS REGARDLESS OF THE IMPETUS IN THE FIRST PLACE, then you wouldn't have had citizen-militia showing up... PERIOD!
.

That is right it should have and never would have led up to a conflict if Bundy after the second hearing which ended like the first woudl ahve followed the law.

 

[fd15k]

Do you have a speeding or parking ticket? I guess you are a criminal too then.

If you truly think that the BLM response to a financial dispute, still being further adjudicated in court, was appropriate, then there really isn't much more anyone else here can say to you that will have any meaning. Thanks for some laughs anyway though.

Parking ticket is an infraction. This is a case of trespassing in addition to unpaid fees. Here is the court order issued last year :

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy shall remove his livestock from the New
Trespass Lands within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled
to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy's cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of
the date hereof.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound
any of Bundy's cattle for any future trespasses, provided the United States has provided notice to Bundy
under the governing regulations of the United States Department of the Interior.


DATED this ____ day of July, 2013.
Lloyd D. George
United States District Judge

I am actually surprised Judge Lloyd George hasn't responded to Bundy's "bubblegum you judge" with US Marshals picking that stupid clown up and throwing him in jail for contempt. BLM was also way more patient than I would expect them to be.
Whether their armed response was appropriate as some questioned here solely depends on the chronology of events. I am under impression that Bundy's call for Oath Keepers and other fringe milita types was heard first, and BLM had no choice but to show up in force when they decided to do their work. Bundy knew they are coming as the notice should have been sent per court order cited above. Perhaps there is more to it though, and somebody can enlighten me on that one.

What does racism have to do with anything in this case ? Well, racism is indication of stupidity, and claims made by a stupid person deserve A LOT of scepticism. Not seeing much of that in here.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Nye County Nevada is a little closer to the situation than any of us. Here's what the County Commissioners recently approved:

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/nye-county-nevada-votes-give-feds-boot/#AS1bep530F32i5L7.01

And here are the two resolutions:

<broken link removed>

 

[BigStick]

...
What does racism have to do with anything in this case ? Well, racism is indication of stupidity, and claims made by a stupid person deserve A LOT of scepticism. Not seeing much of that in here.

If you are not seeing the skepticism here, you are either willfully ignoring it, or ignorantly blind. I don't think I have seen one person here say that Bundy is 100% right and done nothing wrong. Almost every response in "his support" starts with a disclaimer that he may be wrong, or he may be an idiot. He may be a racist, but that has zero impact on the governments actions.

 

[Martini_Up]

If you are not seeing the skepticism here, you are either willfully ignoring it, or ignorantly blind. I don't think I have seen one person here say that Bundy is 100% right and done nothing wrong. Almost every response in "his support" starts with a disclaimer that he may be wrong, or he may be an idiot. He may be a racist, but that has zero impact on the governments actions.

I don't know how or why some people here so so ignorant, crazy, obtuse or whatever - maybe they're friendless underachievers and like to fallaciously argue moot premises on the internet from their parents basement - I don't know. But what I do know is your post is on the money and I'm sure some here will ignore it and continue having fun on the internet.