DGU WA - Vancouver - Shoots Backyard Intruder

[Certaindeaf]

Hopefully he didn't have an attractive nuisance in his backyard.. me, I make sure my nuisances are ugly as f.
lol

 

[No_Regerts]

My take is:

Being armed isnt a crime.

Being armed on your property certainly isn't a crime.

The man was half his age.

We don't know if there was a size mismatch.

We don't know the nature of the "physical altercation". Time of engagement is extremely important. The more tired you are, the more dangerous the situation gets.

If the homeowner has pre-existing medical conditions or not.

Remember, its the fear the shooter had of their life, not ours. Was it smart to go out there? Probably not. That doesn't change the fact the dead guy shouldn't have been there at all.

 

[Koda]

I think were putting wayyy too much weight on the actual threat of trespassing. The act of trespassing is only a misdemeanor crime and there are many reasons other than criminal intent one might be trespassing, they could be drunk, confused, running away... but heres another catch, a trespasser still has the right to defend himself especially if he feels his life is put in danger by the homeowner coming out with gun in hand.

one of the worst things you can do is go outside to confront a trespasser. The second you step out your door, anything you may have to do becomes one giant legal grey area not to mention giving up the single most tactically sound legal and defensive position you could ever want to have if you had to defend yourself... your home.

 

[Silver Hand]

I think were putting wayyy too much weight on the actual threat of trespassing. The act of trespassing is only a misdemeanor crime and there are many reasons other than criminal intent one might be trespassing, they could be drunk, confused, running away... but heres another catch, a trespasser still has the right to defend himself especially if he feels his life is put in danger by the homeowner coming out with gun in hand.

one of the worst things you can do is go outside to confront a trespasser. The second you step out your door, anything you may have to do becomes one giant legal grey area not to mention giving up the single most tactically sound legal and defensive position you could ever want to have if you had to defend yourself... your home.

Who the hell keeps putting a gun in this guys hand? I answer the door with a gun in my belt. Take me down and we have a problem.

 

[Koda]

Who the hell keeps putting a gun in this guys hand? I answer the door with a gun in my belt. Take me down and we have a problem.

maybe I fell for fake news but the subject of this thread is about a homeowner who shot and killed a trespasser on his property.

Vancouver homeowner fatally shoots backyard prowler, police say

 

[Silver Hand]

maybe I fell for fake news but the subject of this thread is about a homeowner who shot and killed a trespasser on his property.

Vancouver homeowner fatally shoots backyard prowler, police say

And there was a struggle.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Maybe he was a squatter.

Colorado police need help finding 'Mad Pooper' jogger

 

[rdb241]

Maybe he was a squatter.

Colorado police need help finding 'Mad Pooper' jogger

Now what relevance does that have to do with this thread?

 

[oldcorpgunny]

I was awakened just after midnight one night by the sounds of people crawling over a chainlink fence in my backyard. I peeked out of the window and saw three males of undetermined age lurking in the shadows and talking quietly. I picked up the phone and dialed 911 and informed the operator of what was happening. I also told her that I was armed and would fire on anyone trying to forcibly enter my home. Next I opened the window and jacked one round of double ought buckshot into my 12 gauge. The ratcheting sound of the action seemed to unnerve the lurkers and they hunkered down. I turned on the yard lights and could see that they were just teens. I could also hear the siren from a cop car. I told the boys that I was holding a gun on them (I wasn't) and that they should put their hands over their heads lest I shoot them. The police came storming into the backyard and rounded up the intruders. As it turned out, they were running from some older kids in a car. Had I gone outside with a loaded gun, they may have panicked or ???????
I used to be a cop. You can't justify shooting someone that is engaged in a property crime unless you believe that your life or that of another is in jeopardy. Even then, you really need to be careful.
On another occasion, two eastern european men were trying to steal my motorhome. The sound of my shotgun caused one to lose control of his bowels and the other to run like Hussein Bolt. Shooting is only required when your life is in danger. Then, make sure you do it right. Don't shoot to wound. You'll get sued. When you kill someone, it will make you sick and you'll never forget it. It is not glamorous or brave. It is a really sad thing. Just like being a liberal.

 

[Camelfilter]

A criminal need not be armed to cause fear of ones life. Simple disparity of force (size, age) shux drug/alcohol use may make a tiny person a whirling dirvish.

Add to that the mention of physical contact & I have zero sympathy for the do-bad.

Now as to exiting the home? Shux who's to say he wasn't just investigating what he thought were raccoons o scare off (or insert whatever you may like there)...then found do-bad in his fenced yard? THAT could could easily happen to anyone.

Same goes for stepping out for a late smoke or breath of fresh air. Someone in MY fenced yard? Yah I'd holler at them too, while backing up to re - enter my house. BUT I'd also need to keep eyes on them (are they armed?) short distance & they'd be on me. Nope.

 

[ArtBrownSr]

The property owner was sixty and may have physical difficulty's you may not be understanding of having not ever had the experience, for instance being breathless and having a bad heart. A struggle is now or may be life threatening under this circumstance.

We will just have to wait this out and hope for the best.
I would like to think the property owner had no real intentions of killing a person as he confronted the trespasser on his private property, no matter how large or small, city or no city.
Silver Hand

I am 69 and a few months, I am strapped on from the time I put my clothes on until I take them off, in the meantime if something is going on outside I'll investigate it, if it is some one in need of assistance I will assist, if they need to leave I shall direct them, if they become belligerent I shall defend me and mine with whatever force I deem necessary. I shall answer truthfully to the judge and jury if the action involves the courts.
My age and health limits my ability to intimidate or over power a younger stronger individual, that is why I carry many tools of defense and the knowledge of how and hopefully when to deploy each one.

 

[Mikej]

Now what relevance does that have to do with this thread?

Thread crapping eh?

 

[Fast Eddie]

We've seen cases similar to this one prosecuted, not all successfully but at significant costs of time, peace, and money to the person who did the shooting.

Being 60, having PTSD and a former mayoral candidate, might get him some leinency on the criminal charges. If the facts bear out beyond reasonable doubt to a jury of his peers, that a crime was committed, it will at least be a factor at sentencing.

If it turns out to be plausible, that he could have stayed inside and called the police, whether criminal charges are brought or successfully prosecuted or not, the civil side of things will probably bankrupt the guy.

I can't think of too many examples where the shooter went to the perpetrator and it went well for him after that. Being unsuccessfully prosecuted and having to defend yourself on civil court, to me, counts as not going well for you.

BTW-The old guy down in California, the one that shot the girl in the back and killed her as she was running out of the yard. I would have bet my last dollar he was going to be prosecuted.

I hear people from time to time, when the subject of personal protection and DGU comes up. "If I pull it out, I'm going to shoot to kill" or if "I catch them stealing from me, they're going to be pushing up daisies". I tell them, if you do, you will be zealously prosecuted and hung by your own words. This isn't the Wild West and even if you can prove your were completely out of options when you pulled the trigger. You might not have a duty to retreat, but you can really save yourself a lot of grief if you can figure out a way to do it anyway.

The best way to win a fight is to avoid getting in one on the first place.

 

[Koda]

We've seen cases similar to this one prosecuted, not all successfully but at significant costs of time, peace, and money to the person who did the shooting.

Being 60, having PTSD and a former mayoral candidate, might get him some leinency on the criminal charges. If the facts bear out beyond reasonable doubt to a jury of his peers, that a crime was committed, it will at least be a factor at sentencing.

If it turns out to be plausible, that he could have stayed inside and called the police, whether criminal charges are brought or successfully prosecuted or not, the civil side of things will probably bankrupt the guy.

I can't think of too many examples where the shooter went to the perpetrator and it went well for him after that. Being unsuccessfully prosecuted and having to defend yourself on civil court, to me, counts as not going well for you.

BTW-The old guy down in California, the one that shot the girl in the back and killed her as she was running out of the yard. I would have bet my last dollar he was going to be prosecuted.

I hear people from time to time, when the subject of personal protection and DGU comes up. "If I pull it out, I'm going to shoot to kill" or if "I catch them stealing from me, they're going to be pushing up daisies". I tell them, if you do, you will be zealously prosecuted and hung by your own words. This isn't the Wild West and even if you can prove your were completely out of options when you pulled the trigger. You might not have a duty to retreat, but you can really save yourself a lot of grief if you can figure out a way to do it anyway.

The best way to win a fight is to avoid getting in one on the first place.

well said Fast Eddie, a lot of people don't get this. A lot of people here don't get this. Like I said before once you step out your door you step into one huge legal grey area. We can bubblegum here all we want about liberal laws, anti-gun judges whatever but none of that is going to matter if you ignore what it is and find yourself on the receiving end. People need to understand that self defense is a crime, and you are not innocent until proven guilty and your actions need to be backed up with a legal understanding of how that works, or leave your gun in your safe and call the cops. Anyone who doesn't understand this needs to get some legal training from a lawyer.

Read this story about Larry Hickey, probably the most clear "righteous shoot" I've ever read about, and what he went thru to keep himself out of prison for murder and let it sink in real deep. True story. Everyone here needs to read this...
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey_Booklet.pdf

 

[Heywood]

I personally think thes eff offs need to be confronted by more home owners, not less. Sorry to say it but Police do not fix these problems, they only move them around.
I know the trend is to let someone else deal the problems of society. I can't get my head around that.
Maybe someone getting shot prowling in an occupied residential area will deter other prowlers.
Maybe if it was more common it would be less likely to be a prosecutable issue.
Maybe property owners and law abiding people shouldn't have to live in fear of prowlers, police and prosecutors.
Society has gone to hell when our own criticize a person for doing what he thought was right on his own property.
The only questions that need answers as far as I'm concerned.
Do you have the right to check on the noise coming from the back yard in the middle of the night?
Do you have the right to be armed on your own property?
Do you have the right to defend yourself from someone with ineptent to do you harm on your own property?
Anything else is political posturing and bull.

 

[Bealzybub]

I'm 57. We've had more thefts in this yard and garage than I can count. I've got security cameras now and can watch. I've called the police several times with absolutely no response whatsoever. Do I blame them (the police)? No. As a matter of fact in the end they end up blaming me for the thefts because "If I didnt own it they couldnt have stolen it". This is what our society has come to on the left coast. Now if I see someone I go out to confront them, unarmed. Well, let me clarify that, "no firearm". Its the proverbial veritable quandry. When I have come across any individuals and have confronted them I make it very clear to them what there fate "might" be should I see them in my yard or garage again. My tone and demeanor, I suppose, left them believing I was serious. It seems to have at least slowed it down a bit. As with the man in Vancouver, when one takes a firearm outside the home in situations like this the chance of a confrontation is 50/50. If it occurs one really doesnt have much choice at that point. Unless the man in Vancouver has really good "buddies" down at city hall he most likely will end up bankrupt. But even at that, it is no comparison to the "feelings" he will endure knowing he's taken a human life. People speak with such bravado. "If I see anyone stealing my wheelbarrow and garden tools I'll just go fix them right up". No, you wont "fix" anything. It has simply come to the point where if someone is committing property crimes against you it simply becomes a "tax" on your being. If you prevent that tax from occurring by lethal force then comes the real "tax" by the very people who are SWORN to protect and defend you. No rant, just the facts.