DGU WA - Vancouver - Shoots Backyard Intruder

[Silver Hand]

Misplaced and fixed

 

[Argonaut]

I see the word confront as though the home owner was brandishing his weapon or had it in his hand as he approached the trespasser. Trespassing is a criminal offense and the property owner may have just asked whom are you looking for or are you looking for me for some reason? He is on his own sacred ground.

There is no justification to use deadly force at that point. Even if he is trying to detain the culprit. There is no fear for your life situation.

 

[Argonaut]

The property owner was sixty and may have physical difficulty's you may not be understanding of having not ever had the experience, for instance being breathless and having a bad heart. A struggle is now or may be life threatening under this circumstance.

We will just have to wait this out and hope for the best.
I would like to think the property owner had no real intentions of killing a person as he confronted the trespasser on his private property, no matter how large or small, city or no city.
Silver Hand

The idea of intent only moves the case from 2nd degree to man slaughter.........neither a good outcome. (Unless your name is Hillary)

 

[Alexx1401]

There is no justification to use deadly force at that point. Even if he is trying to detain the culprit. There is no fear for your life situation.

This is where this can turn into such a mess. If the guy comes after you and you shoot. Will Police accept this? Will you as shooter have the wherewithal to keep your mouth shut and not dig a hole? A LOT of people hang themselves by talking after this happens. Then if all goes well with Police will the "victims" family come out of the wood work and want to sue? It is sad we have come to this point in this country but it is what it is.

 

[Argonaut]

This is where this can turn into such a mess. If the guy comes after you and you shoot. Will Police accept this? Will you as shooter have the wherewithal to keep your mouth shut and not dig a hole? A LOT of people hang themselves by talking after this happens. Then if all goes well with Police will the "victims" family come out of the wood work and want to sue? It is sad we have come to this point in this country but it is what it is.

This is the point.........really tough, the guy took a loaded gun looking for a suspected trespasser (even left his house to do so) . Makes the only legal defense (fear for your life) problematic. Doesn't really illustrate fear.

 

[Silver Hand]

As hard as it can be I have to agree. My yard is fenced. If I see someone out there I would call 911. May ask at a window WTF are you doing and hit them with light. Walking out and confronting them is just asking for this. Sure it's his home and he had every right. The problem now is this may turn into a HUGE, and I mean HUGE financial mess for this poor guy. Anyone who wants to go out to confront someone has to stop and think. Will this be worth losing everything I have?

I see the word confront as though the home owner was brandishing his weapon or had it in his hand as he approached the trespasser. Trespassing is a criminal offense and the property owner may have just asked whom are you looking for or are you looking for me for some reason? He is on his own sacred ground.

 

[Alexx1401]

This is the point.........really tough, the guy took a loaded gun looking for a suspected trespasser. Makes the only legal defense (fear for your life) problematic. Doesn't really illustrate fear.

Yes, it is hard not to do this, I know. Many of us who have worked our entire life for everything. We just get a belly full of the dopers who steal with impunity while law makers protect the criminals. This often now leads to someone doing this. While ago in one neighborhood to north of us cars were getting broken into nightly. One guy got fed up and waited. Shot 2 of them. Of course he is off to prison now. People who work just get sick and tired of supporting scum.

 

[Alexx1401]

I see the word confront as though the home owner was brandishing his weapon or had it in his hand as he approached the trespasser. Trespassing is a criminal offense and the property owner may have just asked whom are you looking for or are you looking for me for some reason? He is on his own sacred ground.

Yes, as I said he is on his own ground and "should" be safe. That does not change reality here. This will be shocking if this does not at a minimum cost this guy big time. That's not how it "should be" but life is not fair, it's reality. Step out of your home armed to check on someone you are risking everything. So is it worth it? If the answer is yes, then by all means head on out. I VERY much doubt this home owner went out there to shoot someone. What he intended means nothing now. He made a choice, his choice lead to a shoot. Now he has to see how it all plays out. I hope everyone who see's someone in their yard thinks about that before they make a decision.

 

[Argonaut]

I see the word confront as though the home owner was brandishing his weapon or had it in his hand as he approached the trespasser. Trespassing is a criminal offense and the property owner may have just asked whom are you looking for or are you looking for me for some reason? He is on his own sacred ground.

You can't shoot someone while defending "your sacred ground" only your or someone else's life. That is the hard line. The shooter has to prove he didn't cross it because he will be accused. (Even cops used to carry throw down guns)

 

[rdb241]

Only one shot shows a lot of restraint under stress

He did not take the police empty your mag class!

 

[Argonaut]

He did not take the police empty your mag class!

He obviously shoots better than most cops.

 

[Dungannon]

Folks from Vancouver know the homeowner as he recently dropped out of the race for mayor. He's a veteran with PTSD. The dead guy has a lengthy rap sheet. Note: the trespassers background wasn't known at the time, but the homeowners previous political dust-up that led him to drop out of the race could be used against him to suggest he has issues with impulse control and getting the facts straight before making a claim against someone else.

No humorous stories to tell about investigating a suspicious noise outside the house, but it has happened several times. I have motion activated exterior lights, but that hasn't proved a deterrence to raccoons and rabbits. Only called the police one time, when the noise continued even after the exterior lights came on behind the garage. I couldn't see anything from the nearest window, so I called the police to see if they'd check. They did, about 5 minutes later. When I saw his flashing lights outside, I turned on interior lights to help illuminate the yard better. A second car showed up a few minutes later. One of the cops phoned me to say all was clear. At that point, I told him I'd come outside [without a gun or flashlight]. Thanked him for the quick response, and he said he was nearby when the call came in.

Edited to correct: was running for mayor, not city council

 

[HB of CJ]

Again respectfully. No dog here. So many added factors MAY be added into a dynamic situation if a home owner CHOOSES to EXIT his home and castle to confront an intruder in his fenced enclosed back yard.

These flashed through my feeble minds eye pretty much instantly. Nothing extraordinary. Was the perk alone? Was he armed? Did he have a weapon? An edged weapon? Did I leave a yard gate open or closed?

Why turn a known tactical inside strength into a tactical potential backyard weakness? Should I be clearing my own home FIRST before possibly directly initiating movement against POSSIBLE multiple perps?

Not Monday morning quarter backing here but the situation did turn sour. Somebody got killed. Why did the home owner choose to do what he did? I hope he lawyers up right quick with good council. Yikes!

Just me again. Respectfully. I can lots of bad here but little good. Yes I am chicken shiet.

 

[Argonaut]

Folks from Vancouver know the homeowner as he recently dropped out of the race for a city council position. He's a veteran with PTSD. The dead guy has a lengthy rap sheet. Note: the trespassers background wasn't known at the time, but the homeowners previous political dust-up that led him to drop out of the race could be used against him to suggest he has issues with impulse control and getting the facts straight before making a claim against someone else.

No humorous stories to tell about investigating a suspicious noise outside the house, but it has happened several times. I have motion activated exterior lights, but that hasn't proved a deterrence to raccoons and rabbits. Only called the police one time, when the noise continued even after the exterior lights came on behind the garage. I couldn't see anything from the nearest window, so I called the police to see if they'd check. They did, about 5 minutes later. When I saw his flashing lights outside, I turned on interior lights to help illuminate the yard better. A second car showed up a few minutes later. One of the cops phoned me to say all was clear. At that point, I told him I'd come outside [without a gun or flashlight]. Thanked him for the quick response, and he said he was nearby when the call came in.

So........with PTSD, maby he can claim insanity? That looks bad on all us combat vets too........The libs have been trying to do that for a long time......I think it was Loretta Lynch that actually called we combat vets, the most dangerous people in society. The projectile receiver was probably a bad guy but there will be no winners here.

 

[Argonaut]

Many parts of this conversation and story bother me. As a highly trained GI, the rules of engagement were absolutly beat into my head. I might not have agreed with them but they were the rules and policies I (and my teams) operated under. CCW permit and gun ownership require the same sort of discipline or we will give the anti gun crowd all the ammunition they need to severely restrict the second amendment we all enjoy. There are other issues, like garbage left at impromptu ranges and people being generally obnoxious with guns don't help either but these highly publicized events are paramount. If the perp had been hit in the head with a baseball bat, the results would have been the same but far less dangerous in the possible reduction of our second amendment rights. If there were weapons on the prowler or other mitigating circumstances it wouldn't be as bad but the headlines "unarmed man shot by homeowner" are poison to our interests.

 

[Mikej]

i thought i had a backyard prowler once. i threw my plates on(no shirt, slippers and only bball shorts) and grabbed my suppressed 300blk pistol with streamlight on it. i crept out my front door/locked it behind me to find nothing except the wind and a tree limb scratching the siding.

In reading this I was picturing you in your "Plates" and shorts, and nothing else. Then neighbors looking out their windows wondering what the ruckus was as you were beating on the door, yelling to be let back in, while the wife and kids were having a good laugh.

I would like to think the property owner had no real intentions of killing a person as he confronted the trespasser on his private property, no matter how large or small, city or no city.

That thought never crossed MY mind.

This is all around deal.

 

[Silver Hand]

You can't shoot someone while defending "your sacred ground" only your or someone else's life. That is the hard line. The shooter has to prove he didn't cross it because he will be accused. (Even cops used to carry throw down guns)

I never said that relate to my first post# 18, then continue.

 

[Dungannon]

VANCOUVER, Wash. — A man suspected of prowling and who was shot and killed by a homeowner earlier this week died from a gunshot wound to the head, the Clark County Medical Examiner said Friday. The shooting was reported in the 14500 block of Northeast 49th Circle around 5:20 a.m. Wednesday.

Police said the suspect, 30-year-old Ryan Anderson of Ridgefield, was "prowling" in Steven Cox's yard. Police say Cox heard someone in his fenced backyard, armed himself with a gun and confronted the suspect. The pair got into an argument, and the homeowner shot the suspect, who was hospitalized but later pronounced dead.

Cox had announced he's running for mayor of Vancouver earlier this year, but withdrew from the race a couple of weeks ago.

KATU's news partners at The Columbian reported that Vancouver police won't pursue charges against Cox. Police spokeswoman Kim Kapp told the newspaper that investigators will forward the incident to the Clark County Prosecuting Attorney's Office for review.

 

[Caveman Jim]

If he has arms, he's armed.

Yep, I'm in the mindset that I'm too limited to fight but too young to die...
Wondering if perps think that they'll just beat up the homeowners & take what they can find? That puts me in fear (I hate using that word) of my life & the buck will stop here.
I'll protect what's mine.

 

[RicInOR]

Guy in front yard, and I am in suburbia, I am not shooting unless there is a specific threat.
Back yard, fenced, mine is 7-feet ( I did get the variance from the county) .... hmmmm.

I know the law concerns the domicile - that is inside your home.
And there have been cases about the garage - is it attached? Same as domicile ?
And places like sheds / barns or other out buildings (chicken coops )

This is one of those that if I was that concerned, I might pay for an defense attorneys time, in my county, to see what the prevailing winds say.

What if the situation involved federal cops? - the FBI was not too far away from my place last week (10 lights)

This case may prove interesting going forward. I do hope the home owner doesn't have to go thru any of it.