WA Post ban rifles?

[Koda]

Did you scroll down to the bottom?

Gun related homicides are not the same as mass murder incidents. Scroll down to the chart at the bottom. It's a clear trend and the number of incidents increased by a factor of 12 since the year 2000. The population has not increased to that extent, there is a disproportionality there.

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Im not certain how to interpret the article then. It says at the top the statistics show the rate of gun deaths remain lower than the past. Ive also always heard that homicides have been decreasing while gun ownership has exponentially increased (a common pro gun point).

The one outlier I have currently read about is violence and mental health issues increasing due to covid lockdowns and policies. I can see that causing a spike in current data....

 

[American123]

I think what we are actually seeing is a manifestation of suicidal tendencies, where in the past the numbers of folks contemplating suicide was tempered by fear of the act ( and consequences of failure to succeed in that act) , into the instant satisfaction of actually carrying through on it using weapons. What's more, one of the bigger motivators in suicide is through perceived social imbalance, historically, people would get upset with their employers, or fellow employees, and would also have issues with friends and/or family ( And Now, Social Media) , driving them to the edge of considering suicide. Today, we see the traditional barriers to that removed, and combined with "Making a Statement" they go off the rails seeking retaliation against even the slightest perceived slight, and we now see the results of that!
Combined with Mental Health issues apparent in practically Every single shooter, as well as known medication abuses of those who self medicate, or are simply not getting treatment that they need, and it's the perfect storm every single time! And we don't even need to look at the guns to see where this all leads.

I would agree that it is a situation with many factors and no single reason shares 100% of the cause, however firearm technology is far from the reasons of why it occurs more.

Someone who wanted to kill other people in the past could have used any firearm at the time. Saying semi auto's are a culprit, like some people do, is like saying there are more fatal accidents with Honda Accords than Rolls Royce's - semi auto rifles are the most popular rifles in the entire country, of course they will be used more for evil purposes - there is more of them.

 

[American123]

Im not certain how to interpret the article then. It says at the top the statistics show the rate of gun deaths remain lower than the past. Ive also always heard that homicides have been decreasing while gun ownership has exponentially increased (a common pro gun point).

The one outlier I have currently read about is violence and mental health issues increasing due to covid lockdowns and policies. I can see that causing a spike in current data....

I'll try it again, but it seems like this should be easy:

The overall rate of homicide using guns can go down. While the classification of "active shooter" homicide incidents can go up. Both can be true simultaneously.

The bottom chart shows a trend, that although homicide using guns has generally decreased over the years, the incidents of mass murder have generally increased over the years.

 

[Koda]

I'll try it again, but it seems like this should be easy:

The overall rate of homicide using guns can go down. While the classification of "active shooter" homicide incidents can go up. Both can be true simultaneously.

The bottom chart shows a trend, that although homicide using guns has generally decreased over the years, the incidents of mass murder have generally increased over the years.

Then Im going to blame the way the govt responded to covid causing depression.

 

[American123]

Then Im going to blame the way the govt responded to covid causing depression.

It trends upward from the year 2000 though.

 

[Koda]

It trends upward from the year 2000 though.

then that would have started in the early years of the Bush administration so maybe I cant blame covid policies then.
Wait.. no, covid polices have been well documented detrimental.

Anyways, so whats causing the spike in mass shootings?

 

[gmerkt]

Publicity? About both the events and the tools used?

 

[American123]

then that would have started in the early years of the Bush administration so maybe I cant blame covid policies then.
Wait.. no, covid polices have been well documented detrimental.

Anyways, so whats causing the spike in mass shootings?

There's a lot of speculation, but at it's core: people are choosing to do that in higher numbers compared to previous decades past.

I think there have been enough manifestos, internet posts, etc. left by these evil people that we have some degree of understanding as to their own personal motivations, but why are they acting on those motives is the other half of the question.

This is a simple theoretical example: if it were not against the law to kill people, then there are people alive today who someone else would have already killed. Think about anyone in you've been acquainted with that you wouldn't mind if they were dead, then take the next theoretical step and consider if it were not illegal if you wouldn't of minded making that happen.

So we've established that murder being illegal stops some people from being killed.

Take the next step and consider this. If you are a religious person and have the belief that you will spend eternity burning for committing an evil act, it might stop you from murdering others, even if it weren't illegal to do it.

Moral Relativism has been being pushed for decades. The U.S. is more secular than it has ever been in history. People are living without a sense of purpose and rotting as a result. Combine all that and you have some really bitter people who don't care about killing others because they've justified it to themselves that taking the lives of others is there way of striking back at the existence they feel bitter about, and if they don't care about their life ending themselves, the law won't stop them, and religion is irrelevant to them, so nothing keeps them from doing the one thing they couldn't otherwise do - murder.

I've heard some good thinkers share that since American society has become so coddled, and existence has become so easy, that the existence, but lacking a meaningful purpose has been a contributing factor in this scenario.

People endeavoring for their own survival and to provide for their family, generally have something meaningful to live for.

As another poster said: the recognition it gains is immense. In school, kids did dumb stuff all the time copying the behavior of other dumb kids because they saw the attention it brought.

 

[Koda]

Take the next step and consider this. If you are a religious person and have the belief that you will spend eternity burning for committing an evil act, it might stop you from murdering others, even if it weren't illegal to do it.

This has never stopped people from murdering others. Prisons are filled with mostly religious people.
Im not disregarding your point though. Where we get morality from I will set aside, but I agree with you that "people are living without a sense of purpose and rotting as a result". At least those exponentially increased crazy people we were discussing, that end up taking their rage out on society.

 

[Knobgoblin]

then that would have started in the early years of the Bush administration so maybe I cant blame covid policies then.
Wait.. no, covid polices have been well documented detrimental.

Anyways, so whats causing the spike in mass shootings?

Notoriety.
Oversaturation of information

 

[American123]

This has never stopped people from murdering others. Prisons are filled with mostly religious people.
Im not disregarding your point though. Where we get morality from I will set aside, but I agree with you that "people are living without a sense of purpose and rotting as a result". At least those exponentially increased crazy people we were discussing, that end up taking their rage out on society.

I disagree. You can't claim the religious component has never stopped people from murdering others, because you don't know how high the murder rate would be if the population never held that belief.

As to the population in prison, conviction of beliefs matter. There are plenty of religious people, their conviction and commitment to their beliefs is what matters. There's a famous war hero who originally didn't want to shoot germans because it went against the commandment not to kill, eventually he did because he realized he would ultimately save more of his fellow Americans, so the premise is there and is proven that it has had impact.

 

[Koda]

I disagree. You can't claim the religious component has never stopped people from murdering others, because you don't know how high the murder rate would be if the population never held that belief.

As to the population in prison, conviction of beliefs matter. There are plenty of religious people, their conviction and commitment to their beliefs is what matters. There's a famous war hero who originally didn't want to shoot germans because it went against the commandment not to kill, eventually he did because he realized he would ultimately save more of his fellow Americans, so the premise is there and is proven that it has had impact.

Millions of people throughout history have been murdered for religious reasons. If you want to suggest todays mass shooters are caused from a lack of religion then you have to first prove with evidence which religion is true.
Im out of that discussion. Wont go there.

A percentage of all societies will struggle with life that doesnt change, spikes and trends notwithstanding. Im not confident there is a solution to that.

 

[American123]

Millions of people throughout history have been murdered for religious reasons. If you want to suggest todays mass shooters are caused from a lack of religion then you have to first prove with evidence which religion is true.
Im out of that discussion. Wont go there.

A percentage of all societies will struggle with life that doesnt change, spikes and trends notwithstanding. Im not confident there is a solution to that.

You'd need to be more specific about what "murdered for religious reasons" even means.

Your claim also seems misguided though. Doesn't matter much which religion a person believes to be true. Let's say the top 5 most popular in the world all tend to agree on some of the same things - that murdering other people is wrong and not ok.

For example, point of a Jehovah Witness in the news about murder sprees.

How do secular people determine that murder is wrong and they shouldn't do it?

 

[Xaevian]

How do secular people determine that murder is wrong and they shouldn't do it?

That concept is older than any current established religion.

Here it is: Don't be an A-hole. If you are an a-hole, no one will associate with you except other a-holes.

 

[Koda]

That concept is older than any current established religion.

Here it is: Don't be an A-hole. If you are an a-hole, no one will associate with you except other a-holes.

nailed it.

In every society on Earth this has been established from the beginning of time.

 

[American123]

That concept is older than any current established religion.

Here it is: Don't be an A-hole. If you are an a-hole, no one will associate with you except other a-holes.

Yep, I get that, but ultimately it is entirely dependent on what each persons decides is acceptable or not. It's "moral relativism." It's not rooted in anything larger than what simply the majority accepts as behavior if the majority decided it was legal, it would be.

 

[GWS]

YEP! A LOT of gun owners tell anyone who will listen not to bother to vote. Then after each election they say "see I told you"

Anyone who tells you not to vote is either an idiot or else they're working for the other side.
Never give up your right to vote. Especially not because some half-wit tells you not to.

 

[Mark W.]

Whoa there hoss, you might wanna back that wrecx7 up a few paces and re read that horsesh!t you just posted,, "Military rifles to kill large groups of people" bullsh!t
NAME ME ONETIME an actual Military rifle, (Not your civilian replica AR or AK), was actually used to commit mass murder, I'll wait while you dig!

The Actual answer is ZERO, as in Never happened, ( unless you count the cops doing the killing like Kent State,) No,........................Actual Military issued weapons used to commit mass murder!

Well the first one that comes to mind is the Texas tower shooting in 1968 when the shooter used an M1 carbine.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Well the first one that comes to mind is the Texas tower shooting in 1968 when the shooter used an M1 carbine.

And, the M-1 Carbine was Long out of official service by then, with only small units in Nam using it, but not under any official sanctions!

 

[arakboss]

What forms of the AR15 can still be sold in WA after Gov signs HB 1240, single shots, rimfires, shotguns, etc?