WA gun sting brings guilty pleas

[dmancornell]

Drugs don't don't hurt anybody? Look at all the other countries trying to get their drugs here. Then who distributes it? It is not school kids...... Drugs affect the whole nation and cost tax payers billions in dollars every year>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh gosh, the government banned drugs, they *must* be bad. The existence of a black market does not prove the product sold in said market is "bad". Of course, since inanimate objects have no moral properties, I really wonder how you can even argue "drugs are bad".

By the way, the government banned new machine guns in private hands, are MG's "bad"? Yeah they're so bad only cops and soldiers should be entrusted with them, because you know government employees have everyone's best interests at heart, LOL.

 

[Riot]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of this very topic...a gun dealer sold firearms to a felon. Regardless of his personal feelings of the political system, he broke the law. Regardless of your stance on the classification of "criminal", he decided that the money was worth saying "f-it" to the law. It's one thing to voice an opinion of distraught to the system in some gun forum, it's another to blatantly circumvent it for personal gain.

Is our justice system perfect? No, not by any means. But I'm still glad to be living in the good old United States of America.

So if the rest of you want to read up on how this topic turned from a gun dealer selling guns to felons to "why can't I smoke pot and shoot guns" debate because it "doesn't hurt anyone" then I guess we should look at it this way...

Why not let in anyone from the boarder that wants to come across? I mean if a terrorists wants to get over, he'll find a way, right? Surely we're just wasting a lot of tax payer money trying to "secure the boarder". After all, what does illegal immigration hurt? I mean, these people just want to have a good life and work in the United States, who wouldn't want to live here?!

That's what a lot of you guys sound to me...just justifying breaking the law. If you want the laws changed then protest to congress or move to a different country.

 

[dmancornell]

^

Implying Congress or the government gives a damn about what people think about their "laws".

All gun control laws and absurd and unconstitutional, breaking them is an act of moral courage. The personal gain part is nice too.

 

[HahnsXD]

All gun control laws are absurd and unconstitutional, breaking them is an act of moral courage. The personal gain part is nice too.

This.

 

[MikeSettles]

If your brother had, 20 years ago, been convicted of "felony" possession of weed by an overzealous prosecutor, and he had to live in a rough part of town, would you help him acquire the means to defend himself and his family?

I have a friend in Oklahoma, (my last buddy from USMC 1970-74), who was convicted of "felony domestic violence" by a county DA who saw an easy win to bump up his conviction rate. The wife had a gambling addiction, and when my friend cut off the money supply, she attacked him with a tire knocker. During the melee', somehow she got finger marks on her throat. After he left the house that evening, she went to ER & got pictures taken. The next day, when he came back to retrieve his things, she kept prompting him to take his guns with him (he didn't); when he stepped outside, there was a deputy with his hand on his pistol and a restraining order. IF he had taken his firearms, he would have gone immediately to jail for possession while under a domestic violence restraining order. There is no previous history of abuse, and he was entirely law-abiding before this incident (though he is somewhat an irrascible character).

My friend is an engineer who has worked on many projects around the world, including oil drill bits, and Army trucks. He was a competitive shooter.
After his conviction (he drew probation, no jail time), he cannot get a job and now lives in a shelter. Originally from Illinois, he will return there after his probation is ended in February: He found that his mother is still alive, and his has a half-sister that he didn't know about until two years ago. Though he has a son with his wife, the son is a deadbeat who sponges off his mother, and now has nothing to do with his father. He has no other ties to OK.

I WOULD NEVER SUPPORT THE TRANSFER OF ANY WEAPON TO SOMEONE I KNOW TO HAVE NEFARIOUS INTENT. And I don't support transfering firearms to current felons - too much quicksand there. My argument is with how "felon" is defined differently in different jurisdictions (did you not attend church on Sunday - you may be a Massachusetts "felon"), and how Laughtenburg makes Federal felons out of misdemeanor "domestic violence" convictees.
I have another story for that one: A sergeant in the Oregon Guard, who was at one time my infantry platoon RTO, and who was convicted by a local Oregon DA because he had an argument with his girlfriend in front of her children: Raised voices in front of children apparently equal domestic abuse in Oregon. She was neither arrested nor charged, he was convicted of a misdemeanor (that DA success-rate thing again). He was forced out of the National Guard because he can no longer handle firearms. He is not the only one whom I know, or know of, who has suffered this fate. Is this JUSTICE, or is this LAW?

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner; in an Republic, the sheep are armed and mutton is off the menu."
The US Constitution was SUPPOSED to prevent the "tyranny of the majority", yet that is what We the People have allowed to happen.

 

[JGRuby]

There are all kinds of excuses - the fact is that the law is the law until it has been changed. I suspect that alot of people dont even bother to vote but complain about the outcome and the laws that do get passed.

This does not mean he isnt a felon - he broke a law and hence he lives with the consequences. The law ( DA ) said he did and was charged - life is not fair. You guys fail to understand this simple premise - you break the law and get convicted you are a felon. I may some day be a felon but not so far - when and if that day comes I will need to decide how I will protect myself. One thing that is certain - I will be a felon regardless of how I feel about it and will need to contend with the law the best I can. Felons according to our laws say that you cannot have a handgun - if you decide you know better than the law, good luck.

You were never guaranteed justice but the law that can be used aginst others today can be used against me tomorrow. We must all be careful of the laws that we allow to exist - as long as there is a society then there must be a set of laws that the people abide by for the good of the whole. If you do not beleive this when was the last time a law was passed specificly for an individaul?

James Ruby

 

[dmancornell]

I suspect that alot of people dont even bother to vote but complain about the outcome and the laws that do get passed.

As if voting for statist A over statist B makes any difference whatsoever.



Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.

 

[JGRuby]

Thats right - we need more individuals that feel that voting has no purpose and we dont deserve the government we recieve due to lackadasical dont care attitude. Every American has a right and respsonsibility to vote unless your a felon and if you dont like who is elected and you havent you have no base to stand on. If you dont like the laws vote for those that support your view point.

"As if voting for statist A over statist B makes any difference whatsoever."

You cant possibly mean this? People arent that stupid - really?

James Ruby

 

[Partsproduction]

Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.

I'll never vote for Ron Paul or anyone who hates Israel, the only reason we have the blessings we have is because our country has always blessed Israel.

 

[dmancornell]

the only reason we have the blessings we have is because our country has always blessed Israel.

 

[dmancornell]

Thats right - we need more individuals that feel that voting has no purpose and we dont deserve the government we recieve due to lackadasical dont care attitude. Every American has a right and respsonsibility to vote unless your a felon and if you dont like who is elected and you havent you have no base to stand on. If you dont like the laws vote for those that support your view point.

I vote but it is totally pointless; there is zero hope of electing a government that respects the Constitution. The way the current system is set up, all you get is an assurance that 51% of the people will not be openly screwed. The government screws far more than 51%, but as long as it can successfully fool 51% by doing so in a convoluted way and pumping out propaganda, it can continue to do so.

I can vote Libertarian the rest of my life and it won't matter because the government will continue to bribe 51% of the voting public with our own tax money.

 

[deen_ad]

As if voting for statist A over statist B makes any difference whatsoever.


Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.

Therein lies the problem: when votes are "siphoned" off by someone or party (Tea Party) who can't win then those are votes that don't count and can cause us to have the same leadership after the upcoming election.

 

[JGRuby]

What is a better answer - let our leadership run more free than they already are - they can tell us what we must do after they vote on it with out so much as informing us until it is law. That is not how it is done today - we are informed and we make the choice if we want to do something about a proposed law. Instead today we have associations that determine what is happening and stand up for our rights before they become law. These same groups also have stong political following - very few groups will go against the NRA because the same people that are members are also voters. So yes if you dont like something and you haven't voted to promote that position that individual is shirking his repsonsibilities and has no ground to stand on or complain. IMHO

James Ruby

I can no longer think of any reason to support Israel - they use and claim we are thier friends but I have seen very little evidence of such except lip service and the dollars we send them - if someone can prove otherwise I would be happy to listen.

 

[dmancornell]

^

So basically your stance is that once you voted and was subsequently overruled by >51% of the voters, there is no recourse and the representatives are free to pass any unconstitutional law as they see fit, with only the judicial branch and their dubious fidelity to the Constitution as a possible barrier? Sounds just like what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Of course what they really had in mind was to simply forbid the federal government from infringing on our Constitutional rights as a matter of fact, i.e. no amount of laws they attempt to pass will be enforced due to resistance from the states and citizenry. If the states or local police simply arrested any ATF agent who tried to enforce NFA34, the whole criminal charade would instantly end. But since the states have long give up their rights in return for federal money, that will never happen in real life.

 

[JGRuby]

When over 50% of the populace makes a choice that should be followed - you are not promised everything will go your way in life but if you make no effort you should have no expectations - I am not really familiar with NFA34 and I am headed to bed so I will look that up in the morning. But grow up and realize just because an election or law gets passed that you dont like doesnt mean that it is illegal and if you care enough repeal it - do something about it or your part of the problem. My primary point being that if you cant even put forth the effort to vote at every level of government you can then you have little that I care to hear and you are shirking your repsonsibilities.

James Ruby

 

[Partsproduction]

I can no longer think of any reason to support Israel

Gen. 12:3 And I'd add that there is no mention of whether or not anyone thinks Israel shows evidence of friendship, in fact I would support Israel because of Gen. 12:3 because of my affinity for the promise therein and for the one making the promise. How Israel feels about America has nothing to do with it.

As for voting in presidential races, we have a duty as citizens to vote for the better candidate, so if the choice were between Paul and Obama (Who also appears to hate Israel, but is much worse than even Ron Paul) I suppose I would have to vote for Paul, with virulent protests of his stance against Israel. Ron Paul is a nutjob though, and will never be in a head to head run against Obama.
In fact, Paul also seems to be weak in other areas like drug laws, illegal immigration and many other areas I feel strongly about. But Mr. Obama appears to literally hate America, and I can't say that about Paul.

To write in Ron Paul is childish when the stakes are so high. I'm not saying anyone in this forum did that, but to do so is paramount to saying the Constitution is unimportant, because we have a duty to vote for whichever candidate will enforce it, and Obama clearly has shown that he will not.

In other words, we all have a duty to do everything legally possible to get Mr. Obama out of office as soon as possible.

 

[JGRuby]

I will support Obama leaving as soon as another candidate with better qulifications in my eyes shows up - the best you have is the "Preacher" Perry out of Texas and Romney - the loser out of Mass. I will admit that I do not want a second term of Obama but the reps had better find someone I consider worth supporting or I will vote for Obama again. It isnt that Obama is good, its that he is doing better than anything running against him right now and he aint even trying. I will not vote for anyone that feels that religion should be in polictics - they should never be combined - We talk about C02 warming because it cant be proven - well heck I think that should go for religion as well. The first time God or Jesus shows up in front of me and says Hi - I will beleive - until then they are the equivalent of the boogey man or Santa Claus.
I have again found no redeeming point for Israel other than from a spiritual point which I consider a fallacy - maybe the biggest joke played on mankind by mankind.

James Ruby

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Therein lies the problem: when votes are "siphoned" off by someone or party (Tea Party) who can't win then those are votes that don't count and can cause us to have the same leadership after the upcoming election.

I disagree. My vote gets counted when I vote, whether I vote for a major candidate or a minor candidate. To say that they "don't count" is wrong. They get counted. I might not have voted for a "winner" but voting for the candidate of my choice is more important to me than "winning(?)" by voting for the candidate that is the least smelly.

See, to me, if the only thing important is voting for a "winner" then I'm no better than the political parties that I dislike. All I'm doing is wanting to be on the right "side" instead of voting for someone I think is better.

Of course, in WA, with our silly system, a third party candidate will never make it to the final ballot anyway, so I'm stuck voting for a Republican instead of someone I like.

 

[dmancornell]

When over 50% of the populace makes a choice that should be followed - you are not promised everything will go your way in life but if you make no effort you should have no expectations

So if 50%+1 of the voters decide JGRuby should have all his possessions confiscated, you're OK with that? Essentially you have completely surrendered to the tyranny of the majority (Tyranny of the majority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and in the case of the US, the majority is bribed by government money and brainwashed by propaganda.

But grow up and realize just because an election or law gets passed that you dont like doesnt mean that it is illegal and if you care enough repeal it - do something about it or your part of the problem. My primary point being that if you cant even put forth the effort to vote at every level of government you can then you have little that I care to hear and you are shirking your repsonsibilities.

On the contrary, illegal laws are passed all the time, that's what judicial review is for. However, that process is also fatally compromised, just read Wickard v. Filburn or Kelo v. City of New London for outrageous examples. You can worship the democracy idol all you want but the US system of representation has demonstrated a total failure in halting the rise of a massive government that tramples on the Constitution every single day.

Keep voting, just don't delude yourself into thinking your vote matters a damn.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Would you trust a 2 time child molestor to watch your kids? Would you want a 2 time felon for armed robbery being your neighbor even though they both served their so called sentence?

I sure the **** would not. It's proven 8 out of 10 will reoffend and that is almost a given they will.

Your a trusting person where I am not and don't believe they should have guns and you can not keep them in jail for what people think they may do after their time has been served. We just have to wait until they do it again.

Easy solution.. people who use guns to commit violent felonies should get a firing squad