The Direction of Law Enforcement

[Gunner3456]

Gunner,

I think maybe you have changed.

I do respect your opinion. If you believe you are as safe from gangs, drugs and violent crime as you would have been 50 years ago, that's OK. Maybe we just didn't know of any drug gangs or drug related violence then. I know they regularly happen in that town now, though.

Drugs and crime are not something that appeared 40 years ago in this country.

I agree. I just don't believe there was as much crime or violence associated with it throughout society in general.

Question about the two pregnant girls.

Was it immaculate conception?

Cause it sure seems like 2 guys managed to duck out of the consequences of their actions "back in the good old days"

My point was that to the best of my knowledge, only two of maybe 500 girls got pregnant. I wander what the percentage is in today's population. I was merely mentioning one change I've noticed in society.

If it wasn't

I know only what I lived, and what Dad tells me he lived. Today I won't go anywhere without a CCW.

 

[wichaka]

Today I won't go anywhere without a CCW.

...and that my friends is sad...very sad.

 

[Father of four]

Here is another reason why I do not trust the Police.

Video shows officers beating motorist in diabetic shock - News - ReviewJournal.com


(Stop resisting!!!!) Isn't it our natural reaction to protect ourselves?

Those guys (LE) were no better then lawless gang members. Gang activity? Looked like it to me. No need to first find out what the guys problem was. PILE ON THE CIVILIAN!!!!!! A disgrace to our Country. It's a shame what LE can do and get away with. "None of the officers were named in the lawsuit, and authorities have not released their names."

The direction of LE...Not good!

 

[Father of four]

Good Comment by... jackmagic wrote on February 07, 2012 11:36 PM:

"This is absolutely and positively disgusting on every level possible. There is no excuse. To Cherokee.Mankiller who says that "people in insulin shock tend to be combative" that's just horse-crap. This guy was barely conscious. It is not necessary to beat the crap out of an unresponsive person. They could have pulled him out of the car and handcuffed him, no kicking, foul language, or abuse necessary. Better yet, though, it is my strong opinion that there was no immediate need to remove the man from the car at all. Okay, he wasn't responding to officers... but that also means he wasn't making threats, his behavior implied no violence or threat whatsoever. Even if this guy had been overdosed on drugs, its still not okay to treat someone like this. Regardless of the WHY he was in this condition, it was pretty clear there was something wrong with him. Instead of teaching these cops to treat each and every citizen as a killer and a threat, they need to learn some more compassion and understanding. There wasn't an immediate need to "do something" at that exact moment. I'm sad that the police in this county are ALL seemingly rogue elements. I know I'll take crap for that statement, painting all cops as bad, but look at the stats here people. Six officers on-scene and NONE of them were decent. That's a 100% failure rate. Two out of six, you could make the argument that not all cops are like this, but that's not the case."

 

[Gunner3456]

Does anyone know more about this story in Eugene? For all of the back and forth, this is getting close to home. Any additional information would be appreciated.

This is the son of the very nice woman who tends to my Dad 20 hours a week at his home, and she's our housekeeper. All we know is that's she's called us twice from Eugene to say that her son was "shot in the neck" and that she would be gone a few days.

On Monday afternoon, medics took Jones to Sacred Heart Medical Center at RiverBend in Springfield after Eugene police officer Ryan Molony shot him during a confrontation that unfolded in the Briarwood Mobile Home Park off Barger Drive.

Kerns said Jones was shot “a number of times” but did not say what parts of Jones’ body were struck by bullets.

“He’s being treated, and we don’t yet know if he’ll survive,” Kerns said of Jones.

Molony, 33, is a seven-year veteran of the Eugene police force. He was not injured.

Molony went to the mobile home park after someone there reported that a man was running around the property armed with a pistol, acting delusional and possibly trying to rob homes, police said.

Molony arrived and tracked down Jones, and then exchanged gunfire with him near the mobile home park’s west end.

Kerns said he was “not able to share” information about which man fired first during the incident, which remains under investigation by a team of officers from several law enforcement agencies.

Kerns said police had received information that Jones is a methamphetamine abuser who was “probably in a state induced by that” when he was reported to have been acting erratically after arriving at the mobile home park.

<broken link removed>

 

[Gaius]

Good Comment by... jackmagic wrote on February 07, 2012 11:36 PM:

"This is absolutely and positively disgusting on every level possible. There is no excuse. To Cherokee.Mankiller who says that "people in insulin shock tend to be combative" that's just horse-crap. This guy was barely conscious.

I'm not saying either way on the video above, but I've had to hold down combative, semi-conscious diabetics before so we can get an IV to get some sugar on board. It happens.

 

[Father of four]

I'm not saying either way on the video above, but I've had to hold down combative, semi-conscious diabetics before so we can get an IV to get some sugar on board. It happens.

I do not know much about diabetics. The whole thing is upsetting to me. The diabetic was just setting in his car and the LE went all crazy on him (In my eyes), Guns pointing at him (They could have accidentally fired and killed him), They didnt even ask him if he was alright, if he had a problem (They decided to jerk him out of the car and shove him face down on the cement), He was being violated by ruthless men (Pushed, pulled, punched, kicked, yelling at him)...and the list goes on.

This is the direction of LE. I am disgusted with it. What rights do we law abiding citizens have when the LE can do this with out even trying to communicate first. The way now is for LE to jerk people out or cars, gang up on them pile on them, beat the ____ out of them, cuff them...THEN ask whats going on?

 

[Father of four]

While I believe wichaka and other LE officers wouldn't have handled it that way, how are we to know which ones will? What assurance do we as citizens/civilans have that the next LE we encounter want treat us, our wives, our kids the way they treated that guy. If someone started treating me or my family like that they'd have a huge fight on their hands. But if LE does it we have to just lay there and take it. Truly messed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wichaka]

I agree...its a toss of the dice on the treatment one will get these days. Sad...very sad.

 

[Gunner3456]

If it wasn't for the laughing at the end of that tape, and the kicking and kneeing while the guy was down and not posing a danger, I could see that in a different light. But as it is what happened is frightening to me.

I can see the police suspecting a DUI. I can understand in this day of druggies (see my post above about the Eugene police shooting on Monday) the police approaching warily and even with guns drawn.

The rest of it I don't accept. I say do what you have to do to remain cautious, get control of this situation which in this case means open the door and determine the guy isn't armed or threatening, and then with that many cops on board, check the guy out.

That video unfortunately is how I see our local police now. Another gang of thugs to be afraid of.

$.02

 

[Swedish K]

I recently saw an interview with a cop from Las Vegas - he had only been there a couple of years and did comment that it was different than prior places he had worked - they tend to be a bit more aggressive in Vegas and they tend to expect the worst out of people. He thought it was because of the vast number of people who think "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" means that they can do any and everything without repercussions. They do see a much higher number of drunk and disorderly types and DUIs than most places which probably led to the assumption that the diabetic guy was drunk. I'm not justifying the way that they treated him, just understanding that when you deal with drunk/high idiots on a daily basis it wouldn't be a far jump to assume someone who is either not responding to commands or has slurred speech to be under the influence.
I do think the officer who kicked the guy when he was down should have been terminated and prosecuted for assault/battery at the least.

I do find it interesting that the first officer kept giving conflicting commands. Reminds me of the guy who got shot outside of Costco after receiving conflicting commands regarding his concealed carry piece. At least this time the dash cam captured the incident and wasn't "lost or the camera broken".

 

[mjbskwim]

I agree...its a toss of the dice on the treatment one will get these days. Sad...very sad.

WTF is this response?
Golly,don't know what the LEO may do to you...sorry

So what has your thread put out there?

May get proper treatment,may get beat if you are in diabetic shock....never can tell with today's LEO

So basically there are good,OK and Bad LEOs out there.
They are trained to survive,not to care about the citizen
Kick the guy in the face if he don't comply (yes don't was used intentionally) Put your knee on the back of his neck....we ain't getting charged and we'll beat the lawsuit.

Glad you started this thread.

 

[Gunner3456]

WTF is this response?
Golly,don't know what the LEO may do to you...sorry

So what has your thread put out there?

May get proper treatment,may get beat if you are in diabetic shock....never can tell with today's LEO

So basically there are good,OK and Bad LEOs out there.
They are trained to survive,not to care about the citizen
Kick the guy in the face if he don't comply (yes don't was used intentionally) Put your knee on the back of his neck....we ain't getting charged and we'll beat the lawsuit.

Glad you started this thread.

So, do you think it was Wichaka who did the beating, or do you think he's just trying to have an open conversation?

Why is Wichaka suddenly the bad guy? Why does he have to get his azz chewed?

Or, did I misunderstand?

 

[gunnails]

WTF is this response?
Golly,don't know what the LEO may do to you...sorry

So what has your thread put out there?

May get proper treatment,may get beat if you are in diabetic shock....never can tell with today's LEO

So basically there are good,OK and Bad LEOs out there.
They are trained to survive,not to care about the citizen
Kick the guy in the face if he don't comply (yes don't was used intentionally) Put your knee on the back of his neck....we ain't getting charged and we'll beat the lawsuit.

Glad you started this thread.

==============================================

I think you are short changing Wichaka as to what he has put out here, nonetheless I feel your frustration.

My question is?

Do you agree with me that there is a need for law enforcement and police forces in general across the US?

If so, how would you fix law enforcement?

 

[wichaka]

WTF is this response?
Golly,don't know what the LEO may do to you...sorry

No one can predict what any human will do, training or not.
Its not to be that way, but one would have to be out of touch with society not to see that.

May get proper treatment,may get beat if you are in diabetic shock....never can tell with today's LEO May get proper treatment,may get beat if you are in diabetic shock....never can tell with today's LEO

Sad but true...as it appears.

They are trained to survive,not to care about the citizen

Actually we are trained to do both, but caring for the citizen at times is a bit lost.

Glad you started this thread.

Yer welcome!

Anything else I can do for ya, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Father of four]

I have a question wichaka.

With regards to deceased Officer William H. Torbit.

Street dedicated for slain Baltimore officer Torbit - Baltimore Sun

"The city state's attorney's office declined to press charges against any of the officers involved or the patrons involved in the fight; Rawlings-Blake appointed an independent commission to analyze the incident and the department's response, issuing a report with a litany of recommendations. None of the officers involved in the incident cooperated with the panel under advice of counsel."

Is there anyway you can find out what the panels report was and what the recommendations are?

And I'd like to here how something like that works. The appointed panel; who are they, what do they do, what comes from their recommendations, etc...

Thanks, Howard

 

[Father of four]

I did find this...Panel: Police Management Lacking In Torbit Shooting - YouTube

And this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orOq8hnmd5A
Sorry but skip to 4:00 and listen.

 

[wichaka]

I will check into it and get back to the thread with what I find.

May take a few days...so stand by.

 

[Father of four]

Thanks, no hurry. Thank you for your time.

 

[wichaka]

Here's a link to the published report. I haven't had time to fully go thru it, as its 169 pages...but will in the next day or so.

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