The Direction of Law Enforcement

[Gunner3456]

And you guys are using this opportunity to "convict" cops across the board?

You guys? Can you please be specific about which guys, and in which posts they tried to "convict" cops across the board?

After all, if you're going to run your mouth, I'd think you'd have something in mind?

Personally I believe I've shown a lot of respect for cops, especially Wichaka. I like Wichaka so much I'd like to meet him just to shake his hand. I had a bad experience with LEOs and said so.

So, which posts had the broad brush?

 

[wichaka]

Gentlemen, ease up on each other please...

I had an older guy come in the office yesterday wondering about a gun of his that had been stolen, and recovered by my dept. He contacted the PA's office to find out when he could get it back, but was either given the run around or his calls were not returned.

I spent some time with him to explain how the evidence process works, and that until all suspects have gone thru the system, meaning trial or plea bargain, the evidence must be held. There were four individuals involved in this case, and three had already been sentenced. I explained to him that the last suspect would need to finish going thru the legal process before anything could be released.

The end result; he wasn't happy about being without his gun for almost a year, but he now understood what the process was. He had no idea before, as one took the time to explain things.

That's what this thread is all about, to educate and connect. Again, am not here to change anyone's mind, that's up to each individual.

Looking to get some constructive dialog going, and educate those who may not know what the processes behind the scenes are...right or wrong.

 

[jimwsea]

I'd like comments on this. Caught On Tape: Officer Threatens to Make Up Evidence After Arrest of Innocent Men - informationliberation

Personally, I am reading, viewing, and hearing about this more and more (talk about the direction of law enforcement!). There is an increasing frequency of: 1) the crucial part of the dashcam video goes missing? 2) the internal investigation finds nothing wrong? 3) the department gets sued and the tax payers shell out millions.

This may not be happening in YOUR town or YOUR department, but it appears to be on the increase overall.

 

[Kevatc]

I'd like comments on this. Caught On Tape: Officer Threatens to Make Up Evidence After Arrest of Innocent Men - informationliberation

Personally, I am reading, viewing, and hearing about this more and more (talk about the direction of law enforcement!). There is an increasing frequency of: 1) the crucial part of the dashcam video goes missing? 2) the internal investigation finds nothing wrong? 3) the department gets sued and the tax payers shell out millions.

This may not be happening in YOUR town or YOUR department, but it appears to be on the increase overall.

I must admit it is very disconcerting and down right depressing that there is evidence such as this. I've often wondered why a wide angle cam isn't in the light bar on top of the unit and that there are cameras and audio in every rig. There has to be a way (legally and technology wise) where every single second of an interaction can be seen and no edited out. The public and the LEO's deserve to have the truth and nothing but the truth available.

On a side note, my son-in-law is a LEO and it is up to him to buy and install a camera system in his rig. Seems crazy to me.

 

[Toxic6]

On cameras and recordings....I actually asked one of the state police when I lived in CO, and he told me they were pushing them towards a system that they basically logged onto and it recorded their time to flash drives while in the car. The topic came up on another forum, when I brought up that the city I lived in did NOT have cameras and was known to be corrupt and they didn't believe me so we got into a call around and ask scenario. Funny thing, he was probably the ONLY one who didn't look at me or talk to me like I was casing the police or a terrorist or something when I asked him about their system and the localities, lmao (I contacted most of metro Denver and asked about why they did or didn't have cameras in their cars - I ran into the state trooper at the gas station lol). If you're curious, the departments that ran cameras (I.E. Aurora) told me they did so because they believed there should be transparency to their operations and to protect both their and the public's best interest (pr answer, but forthright).....in the case of areas that did not (i.e. a lot) they blew me off without a response, or no direct answer (I think almost all of them never returned my calls or emails, one sent me a why do you want to know response then blew me off, one sent me to voice mail and i am guessing was told not to give me any information since he never called back - I was honest and polite in my asking, and tried to seem non-creepy, etc.

IDK if this login flash type system was just a potential new system, or what - I know in the industry I work...er, was working in (unemployed now lol) they have the machines set up now to where each operator has a flash key and it "logs" them onto the machine and records their time in the computer and over gps/wireless if the system is there. Still not as bad as when you enter a federal facility, and every breath and mumble is monitored and recorded - those poor bastards, I mean employees of the federal government can't even talk at work without it being recorded and disected.

 

[dmancornell]

Any comments on this case: Ariz. Officer Scrutinized After 6th Fatal Shooting - ABC News

 

[Caleqs]

Spitpatch, thanks for sharing about your dad. I'm going through the Reserve program right now and will be on the street in July. I hope I'm the type of cop your dad was. At 46, I think I have a much better perspective than most and can make a difference in my patch.

 

[wichaka]

Caleqs, you make a good point about recruits which I have failed to write about...that's about older folks getting into the LE world.

I find that older folks, those who have had some life experience in other work professions, seem to be less uptight, and more sensible with their decision making. Again its not a 100% thing, but it tends to be a 'more often than not' with my experience.

There are quite a few career military folks going into the LE world. They have put their 20 years in, and now are looking for that second retirement. So most of the folks are in their late 30's to early 40's.

Having taught at the WA State academy, I can vouch for their better use of the English language, having more tools at their disposal in their decision making process, and just present themselves better overall. Sometimes I think there should be a minimum age for LE work, such as 28-30yrs of age...and definitely a max age, such as airline pilots have.

Would hate to be tottering around trying to do this job while strapped to a walker!

 

[Swedish K]

Toxic6 -
I lived about an hour north of you for about 15 years and still have family back there - I loved Colorado but must say that most of the smaller cities are more about revenue from traffic tickets than actually stopping "real crime". I remember getting a ticket in Windsor for 2 miles over the speed limit just as you come in to town from I-25 - the speed limit drops from 55 to 25 and they hide (or did at the time) behind a hedge in front of a bank about 20 yards past the 25 mph sign. I think the only fair shake I ever got back there was from a state trooper that called me the day after issuing me a ticket to tell me that his radar was tested and it wasn't calibrated correctly - he had checked it after I explained that I had only turned onto the road a block or so from where he was on a side street and there was no way the car I was driving could accelerate that fast. Good guy over all.
Aurora PD seemed to be a pretty responsive department back in the mid 90s. My brother had a house near iliff and chambers - he called home to see if his roommate was there and some gal answered he asked who she was and what she was doing there - click she hung up - he hit redial and got the answering machine. Aurora PD was there in about 7 minutes with 3 cars and couldn't see any sign of break in but couldn't get into the back yard because his Rottie wouldn't let anyone unknown in the yard (good dog!) He drove over there and met with them - they did a complete search of the house for intruders and came up empty. Most likely the cause was a phone company switching error but it was still nice to know that they responded quickly and did their jobs professionally. On top of that one of the cops saw his 22 with a can and said Nice! if you ever want to go shooting just let me know and gave him his card. No running Serial numbers or guilty until proven otherwise attitude, no assumptions that it was illegal. Overall they were doing their job and serving the community.
On the flip side I was visiting an old girlfriend who lived in a less friendly part of Denver off the old cruise strip - think its MLK now - and went to leave - they were looking for some guy who had run from the cops and held me at gun point as they searched the trunk inside the car and even under the hood for whoever they were looking for. No one bigger than a 5 y/o would fit in the trunk or in the engine bay... It wouldn't have bothered me as much if they had been polite about it.
There are good and bad in all lines of work. All we can hope for is that the bad ones either don't make it through the screening process or are weeded out quickly before they can become much of a problem.

 

[Toxic6]

Swedish K - I know the areas of which you speak all to well.

 

[CounterOfBeans]

Is this thread still open for input? I noticed the last posting was last February, but I don't see where anyone has officially closed it. Thanks

 

[Redcap]

Is this thread still open for input? I noticed the last posting was last February, but I don't see where anyone has officially closed it. Thanks

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Thanks for the posts. Thanks to you who have served!

 

[RBid]

This thread is John McClane.

I suppose it's worth taking the opportunity to thank Wichaka. Thank you, sir!

 

[CounterOfBeans]

It's so nice to encounter people who honor the good faith spirit of putting an issue on the table so there can be a meeting of the minds on how to resolve it. Maybe you can show me (absent an official closing of the thread) this site's house rule that identifies the specific number of days where the lack of comment renders the thread taboo to make a remark on. Maybe you have been duly elected as the site's faux pas officer and public relations liaison. Maybe among your many important duties is to do your best to gently remind those members who so offensively step over the clearly marked etiquette foul lines, that their trespasses will not be tolerated. As for myself, I very much appreciate how you plugged in your clever little cartoon to coach me and other troglodytes who trample over social norms, on how to see the error of our ways. I really learned a lot from this experience. Please let me know if I do something unpopular again. I'm on a learning curve you know. Maybe for starters you can let me know what it was that I said that was "inane and not significant", since all I was doing was checking in (not contributing) to see if there was any interest in the crowd for picking this ball back up. If not, then I'm OK with that. Or maybe you know what I was going to say already. If that's the case, you are indeed well-qualified and rightly chosen as the site's thought regulator. In the future, should I simply submit my comment drafts to you for screening? Thank you for your service.

 

[kodiak61]

It's so nice to encounter people who honor the good faith spirit of putting an issue on the table so there can be a meeting of the minds on how to resolve it. Maybe you can show me (absent an official closing of the thread) this site's house rule that identifies the specific number of days where the lack of comment renders the thread taboo to make a remark on. Maybe you have been duly elected as the site's faux pas officer and public relations liaison. Maybe among your many important duties is to do your best to gently remind those members who so offensively step over the clearly marked etiquette foul lines, that their trespasses will not be tolerated. As for myself, I very much appreciate how you plugged in your clever little cartoon to coach me and other troglodytes who trample over social norms, on how to see the error of our ways. I really learned a lot from this experience. Please let me know if I do something unpopular again. I'm on a learning curve you know. Maybe for starters you can let me know what it was that I said that was "inane and not significant", since all I was doing was checking in (not contributing) to see if there was any interest in the crowd for picking this ball back up. If not, then I'm OK with that. Or maybe you know what I was going to say already. If that's the case, you are indeed well-qualified and rightly chosen as the site's thought regulator. In the future, should I simply submit my comment drafts to you for screening? Thank you for your service.

 

[davemata]

To end this post, we need to stand together to make the change. Acting like some of the lawless folks at the 'Occupy' camps won't get anyone anywhere, it will only make the change harder.

This post is over 10 months old, that's a good sign. So I've got a pointed question based on the quote above.

Which side of the TBL are you on? Why do good cops let bad cops get away with murder?

 

[cueball1214]

Wichaka,
I really like this post. It is a very interesting subject and its nice to get the insight. Now i have a degree in Criminal justice, i have not used it and its been a few since i graduated, but it seems to me that in Portland, where i live, When ever there is a Officer involved shooting, it is imminently Monday night quarterbacked. Which i don't agree with. Police officers go through training over and over to know when they should even pull their side arm. But you have people who say you should have used bean bags or Tassers, or shot them in the leg ( people that don't understand that its a little bit harder to shoot someone in the leg as it is center mass), have you ever come across a situation in the last few years where you were worried about the conciquences of what might happen to you even if it is something you are trained to do, deadly force, use of force in general, dealing with certien types of subjects?

 

[RVTECH]

He believed that resistance to law enforcement was very often a result of unreserved police action itself, escalation where none was necessary.

Touche'

 

[davemata]

Police officers go through training over and over to know when they should even pull their side arm.

Oscar Grant is the product of that training.