The Dicken Drill

[titsonritz]

I understand. It would be tragic to miss the bad guy and accidentally kill an innocent.

In the average situation it would be an easier call. If your life or the life of someone you love is in immediate danger, you shoot. We're taught to use extreme caution in using deadly force to protect strangers. A mass shooting situation would be a bit of a unique situation. It would be a helluva judgement call to be made in a moment.

Dicken was lucky that the shooter didn't turn and fire on him. Fortunately most of these lunatics are untrained cowards.

Is there any doubt the murderer would not have gotten to him sooner or later and that was the intent? He was protecting himself and his girlfriend, protecting "strangers" was a corollary.

 

[huzar]

Is there any doubt the murderer would not have gotten to him sooner or later and that was the intent? He was protecting himself and his girlfriend, protecting "strangers" was a corollary.

He could certainly easily and credibly articulate that this is exactly what he was doing.

At 40 yards, depending on where the shooter's attention was, available cover and sight lines and a myriad of other factors, running maybe could have been an option, and had he taken that route, no one should have faulted him for it. Again, not questioning or second-guessing what he did -- that was a very effective performance under extreme pressure -- but to assume that everyone else should act the same, or guess that you will perform the same when placed in that situation, is probably over-optimistic. It is perfectly OK for reasonable people to arrive at different courses of action appropriate for themselves, their capabilities, perceived understanding of the unfolding situation, mindset, risk tolerance, etc. Make your choice and act accordingly.

And even if you have good reason to believe you might act a certain way, based on training and having pressure-tested your skills, the bad guy gets a vote, as does random chance. You could wind up like Victor Gomez, who was the first person the shooter saw when he exited the bathroom. Like Eli Dicken, Victor Gomez was armed, but didn't have a chance to defend himself as he was gunned down right away.

 

[titsonritz]

This is what I don't get -- why would you train yourself to accept misses? Your performance will likely degrade in a real defensive situation, so you might as aim for the highest training standard.

Don't try and get it, man. No one is saying one should "train yourself to accept misses"...it is a play on the events with a "information" at the time. I think the main thing here is for many too much time is spent between the 3-7 yard lines and most never go beyond 25 yards, but here we have scenario that required a 40+ yard shot to stop a threat.

When I took a class with Joel Turner up at Steve's we were shooting our pistols at 50 yards and making good hits. I don't shot as often as I'd like and not a particularly great shot in the first place but I make a point to shoot at 35-50 yards with my G19 every time I'm there. Hell yes, 10 for 10 should be your goal.

 

[titsonritz]

He could certainly easily and credibly articulate that this is exactly what he was doing.

At 40 yards, depending on where the shooter's attention was, available cover and sight lines and a myriad of other factors, running maybe could have been an option, and had he taken that route, no one should have faulted him for it. Again, not questioning or second-guessing what he did -- that was a very effective performance under extreme pressure -- but to assume that everyone else should act the same, or guess that you will perform the same when placed in that situation, is probably over-optimistic. It is perfectly OK for reasonable people to arrive at different courses of action appropriate for themselves, their capabilities, perceived understanding of the unfolding situation, mindset, risk tolerance, etc. Make your choice and act accordingly.

And even if you have good reason to believe you might act a certain way, based on training and having pressure-tested your skills, the bad guy gets a vote, as does random chance. You could wind up like Victor Gomez, who was the first person the shooter saw when he exited the bathroom. Like Eli Dicken, Victor Gomez was armed, but didn't have a chance to defend himself as he was gunned down right away.

Absolutely, all true. I wouldn't blame anyone for running if they could and not everyone possess the will or the the skill Eli Dicken presented.

Everyone's ticket is going to get punched, when it is time it is time...I figure living is a terminal condition and not something I dwell on but given that situation, anything short of a CNS shot I'm going to try my damndest to put rounds on target and take that m'er f'er with me and I make a point to train from the ground.

 

[Member 53328]

Absolutely, all true. I wouldn't blame anyone for running if they could and not everyone possess the will or the the skill Eli Dicken presented.

Everyone's ticket is going to get punched, when it is time it is time...I figure living is a terminal condition and not something I dwell on but given that situation, anything short of a CNS shot I'm going to try my damndest to put rounds on target and take that m'er f'er with me and I make a point to train from the ground.

Every moment that we are alive is a moment closer to death. Live/train like it. Physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and of course all the fun shooting stuff/medical/preparation etc.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[RBB4ME]

No one has directly addressed the fact that the suspect was not a USPSA target 40 yards away, attached to a stationary stand. For distinction, try attaching just the top of the target to a string and let it flap in a 5 MPH breeze. Then start the drill where you have to fire the first shot from 40 yards, but can then move forward as you wish. You still only get 10 rounds in 15 seconds, 8 hits minimum.

For the "don't accept misses" group, let's be clear that a miss is often a function of 20/20 hindsight. That's like saying every time a reciever doesn't catch a pass, the quarterback 'missed', without any regard for the myriad of other factors involved.

The standard I was trained to years ago and still believe in is, "If you don't think you can make the shot, don't take it." That's a lot different than expecting no misses against another living, moving opponent.

We can, and should have deep discussions about this stuff, but I say we need to support those who have to hang in out like Dicken did and be careful not to eat our own.

 

[huzar]

100% agreed here, and my criticism of accepting misses was on the drill, not Dicken's performance, which was exemplary.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[Stomper]

I'm hearing the first shot was a solid hit and the game changer, scumbag loses all interest in continuing his evil deeds, goes down and attempts to retreat back into the restroom (where turds belong). The hero advances and put rounds on the turd while it is on the ground until it stops moving. Successful flush.

The big take-aways IMO are when most people were in "WTF is happening" mode, Dicken had the mindset to react to what was happening and the skill to make a difference. That is not something one goes down to the gun counter and purchases. This went down 17 days after constitution carry went into effect, which he carried under and he ignored those stupid "no guns" signs. Hopefully any fence sitting states will fall over into the green and more will wake up and do the same.

All hail Baron Von Chutemenderdicken!!

 

[Stomper]

View attachment 1245295

Special Agent, Prozac… I presume?!

 

[Certaindeaf]

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Those renderings look like he's standing out in the open shooting unsupported.
I thought he was behind a pillar, using it for cover and to steady the shot, much like PPC shooters shooting at 50 yards do.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Those renderings look like he's standing out in the open shooting unsupported.
I thought he was behind a pillar, using it for cover and to steady the shot, much like PPC shooters shooting at 50 yards do.

You do what you can with a stock photo of the mall food court.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You do what you can with a stock photo of the mall food court.

Not me, I've been to a mall before.

 

[spookshack]

Not me, I've been to a mall before.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[GrayGoose]

I first thought the "Dicken Drill" was some sort of Kama Sutra position. Well I was wrong.

 

[titsonritz]

 

[JohnnyMac]

I'm hearing the first shot was a solid hit and the game changer, scumbag loses all interest in continuing his evil deeds, goes down and attempts to retreat back into the restroom (where turds belong). The hero advances and put rounds on the turd while it is on the ground until it stops moving. Successful flush.

Watching all the "Active Self Protection" videos I have, one thing I noticed is that seems to happen a lot, is at the first sign of someone shooting back, the perp(s) scatter. I think even if you don't hit the target, you stand a good chance of ending the situation by scaring the shooter off. I'm not saying just start willy-nilly firing in the general direction and it shouldn't be a shot that you know you are going to miss. Just saying if you feel good about the shot, even if you miss, it might still defuse the situation.