The Dicken Drill

[titsonritz]

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[Cerberus Group]

I wish USPSA etc would have consulted a Doctor or medical examiner when they came up with that target...one gets penalized for shots above the A box...ugh! Those are fight ending hits...

 

[huzar]

In my opinion, the standards are too low. In the spirit of being accountable for every round you fire, you should have all rounds on the silhouette. Those two bullets not on target hit something or someone.

 

[Member 53328]

In my opinion, the standards are too low. In the spirit of being accountable for every round you fire, you should have all rounds on the silhouette. Those two bullets not on target hit something or someone.

That's the difference between playing a game and shooting in a self defense scenario. The mentality should be the same but often it is not….

 

[huzar]

That's the difference between playing a game and shooting in a self defense scenario. The mentality should be the same but often it is not….

This is what I don't get -- why would you train yourself to accept misses? Your performance will likely degrade in a real defensive situation, so you might as aim for the highest training standard.

 

[Member 53328]

This is what I don't get -- why would you train yourself to accept misses? Your performance will likely degrade in a real defensive situation, so you might as aim for the highest training standard.

Cause time trumps accuracy as long as MOST your rounds make contact…. Not saying I agree.

 

[CLT65]

So for the sake of argument, let's say you're in a hypothetical situation where some psycho is shooting people. You have him in your sights at 75 yards. Far from ideal, and you're going to miss a few because that's a long way, but every second you wait people are dying. Do you just not shoot, because some will miss?

Not saying you shouldn't strive for the best in training, but I have to wonder if there are times...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

In my experience of being shot at and shooting back....

You gotta take the best shot you can while in that situation....
Which is rarely the perfect shot window , that one is presented with while on the range in a controlled environment.

The above is not saying that misses need not be worried about...that bullet has got to end up somewhere.
And that somewhere can be deadly.

If you do have to engage with a active shooter....
I would suggest to get as close as you can...and take the best shot that you have , at that moment.
Andy

 

[Cerberus Group]

If you do have to engage with a active shooter....
I would suggest to get as close as you can...and take the best shot that you have , at that moment.
Andy

Yes...if applicable...move to get the higher percentage shots.

 

[po18guy]

Oh! I thought it was the Dick'em drill. My bad.
Nevertheless, power = accuracy = speed. The gunfight triangle.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

To be clear here...
My :

I would suggest to get as close as you can...and take the best shot that you have , at that moment.

Is not to be read as a "higher percentage shots" as in "points" on a target...but as
A better chance of getting more hits into the threat.

And yes...that whole moving closer , may or may not apply / be able to be done.
Andy

 

[Member 53328]

So for the sake of argument, let's say you're in a hypothetical situation where some psycho is shooting people. You have him in your sights at 75 yards. Far from ideal, and you're going to miss a few because that's a long way, but every second you wait people are dying. Do you just not shoot, because some will miss?

Not saying you shouldn't strive for the best in training, but I have to wonder if there are times...

I'm not taking a 75 yard shot with a handgun…. But that's just me. And is there a high probability that your missed shots will impact other innocent civilians?

 

[WillametteWill]

I'm taking the target and description in the OP as more of an eye-opening, philosophical aspect to consider for self-defenders, similar to the single cold shot at distance from Jack Wilson in the church. Also agree with other posts that misses are not misses, they are hits into something you are not shooting at. Denver police shot six bystanders this week while shooting at a suspect. Those are hits, albeit bad ones.

That's the difference between playing a game and shooting in a self defense scenario. The mentality should be the same but often it is not….

"Their training is like bloodless battles, and their battles like bloody training."
~Flavius Josephus

One of my training mottos.

Nevertheless, power = accuracy = speed. The gunfight triangle.

Not to nitpick, but it's Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas.
The order of Accuracy, Power & Speed was deliberate.
And it's tattooed on my wife's arm. Yes, yes it is.

And one final burr in my saddle (not with the OP or anyone here of course), but this concept of must be shot cold with exception of zero confirmation. I've been seeing this with Youtubers doing this. A) You don't get a Marcus of Queensbury zeroing shot before a gun fight, B) If you don't trust your equipment enough that you think you need a zeroing shot you should probably change equipment!

 

[CLT65]

I'm not taking a 75 yard shot with a handgun…. But that's just me. And is there a high probability that your missed shots will impact other innocent civilians?

It was just food for thought; I don't have a strong opinion on this issue, and I'm far from any kind of expert. There are others on this thread who I would defer to for advice.

I can ring a 10" steel gong at 75 yards fairly regular with a couple of my favorite handguns, under ideal conditions. If there was a psycho shooting kids and I had a reasonably clear shot, I'd have to say I'd take it. It would be one helluva judgement call, one I wouldn't want to have to make. The likelihood of ever being in that situation at any time in my life is extremely remote, thankfully.

I only brought it up because of the context of the mall shooting. I'm glad that he did what he did to stop the guy, even though he missed a couple shots.

 

[slimmer13]

I'm not taking a 75 yard shot with a handgun…. But that's just me. And is there a high probability that your missed shots will impact other innocent civilians?

Remember when Andy Brown stopped the mass shooting at Fairchild AFB with a headshot from 74yds I think?

Beretta 92

 

[Member 53328]

Remember when Andy Brown stopped the mass shooting at Fairchild AFB with a headshot from 74yds I think?

Beretta 92

I said "I won't take that shot." You are more than welcome to do what you are comfortable with.

 

[slimmer13]

I said "I won't take that shot." You are more than welcome to do what you are comfortable with.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I was just saying it wasn't hypothetical. It's been done.

 

[Member 53328]

I don't have a dog in the fight. I was just saying it wasn't hypothetical. It's been done.

Agreed. Lots of things have been done that I myself would avoid. Just cause it can or has doesn't mean I'm dipping my toes in that pool. Haha.

 

[ma96782]

IMHO......

Under stress, 40 yards with a semi auto and 8 out of 10 is darn good. Then....if he felt the need (or just his choice) to close the distance while still engaging.....it's still a WELL DONE, Elisjsha Dicken.

Aloha, Mark

 

[titsonritz]

IMHO......

Under stress, 40 yards with a semi auto and 8 out of 10 is darn good. Then....if he felt the need (or just his choice) to close the distance while still engaging.....it's still a WELL DONE, Elisjsha Dicken.

Aloha, Mark

It is damn good. It is my understanding he advanced to a column for cover and support to fire accurately.