The Dicken Drill

[Howard1955]

So for the sake of argument, let's say you're in a hypothetical situation where some psycho is shooting people. You have him in your sights at 75 yards. Far from ideal, and you're going to miss a few because that's a long way, but every second you wait people are dying. Do you just not shoot, because some will miss?

Not saying you shouldn't strive for the best in training, but I have to wonder if there are times...

I reckon it would depend on the circumstances of the moment.

If you thought there was little likelihood of innocent people beyond the shooter (like if he was standing in front of a wall), then it's more likely you'd start shooting. But if there was a crowd behind the shooter, you'd probably want to get closer before shooting.

If you knew that you could hit a target at a further distance than where the shooter was standing, that would be a plus. But really, a dynamic situation like that can change awfully quick.

It sounds like this young man kept a cool head and was able to do what needed to be done.

Years ago, when I was deciding if I should carry a gun, I dug into the statistics of mass shootings. In cases where the shooter was confronted/killed by an armed citizen, the body count was always lower than in cases where no citizen intervened. This case fits that profile perfectly. How many more would have died, had the shooter gone unchallenged?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[Cerberus Group]

Just like Uvalde, I'm gonna sit back and watch for awhile and see how many things might change.

Been hearing from inside sources a few differing facts...

 

[Stomper]

View attachment 1243505

To dickens with that!

 

[spookshack]

Well if it's a Dickin drill, than it needs a correct target. This one should do just fine. Just aim for "Precious".

 

[huzar]

So it seems that a bunch of people are defending Dicken's shooting performance, whereas what I criticized were the standards for the drill. Yes, what Dicken did was very, very good. Probably better than what I can do today, though the furthest I normally shoot my carry gun is 25yds. That doesn't mean that I should train in a way to accept misses, and it should take nothing away from what he did for me to say that.

For me, that means knowing my limitations -- and if someone is shooting people in a Costco and I don't feel I can get good hits down the full length of an aisle and there is foreground and background that I am concerned about, then I should not be taking shots at the bad guy at that moment. I'm not covered by my police department's insurance policy where if I accidentally wound or kill someone, the agency is (usually) the one footing the bill. And I'm OK with that calculus -- I cannot leave my family sued into oblivion 'cause my ego told me I should shoot someone that is shooting at people outside of my immediate circle. I'm not willing to assume that risk. You do you.

 

[JustShoot]

In my opinion, the standards are too low. In the spirit of being accountable for every round you fire, you should have all rounds on the silhouette. Those two bullets not on target hit something or someone.

HAhahah.. Lost me at @ 50 sec., with deep concealment, .22 rimfire , Revolver , and 40 yards .
.

 

[AshWilliams]

Given the title, I thought this was a thread about sex toys.

 

[JustShoot]

When I feel the need to be a YouTube whore. I always invent obscure handgun drills, and name after myself .
.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Some info coming out...first shot at approx 40 yards, the following shots at 20 and 10 yards.

Unknown if first shot at 40 was a hit. Appears some shots, unknown how many, were peripheral...arms, fringe torso etc., which penetrated through.

Trying to get video...LE reluctant as is too gruesome, so they say...oh pleeeeeeeeeeeez

 

[Provincial]

It is reasonable to assume that the first shot(s) from 40 yards did not cause the perp to respond with accurate return fire. There could be many reasons for this, and it will be interesting to see if there will be an analysis of why the Good Samaritan was able to keep firing and advancing against a rapid fire rifle.

I suspect that the perp was focused on his own shooting, and had "tunnel vision" centered on who he was targeting. This makes me wonder if video games affect a person's situational awareness in the real world.

I'll throw out a couple of reasons, just to get people thinking. Remember, I'm not saying these happened, just that they could have happened.

First shot a hit, but not incapacitating, perp has delayed reaction and is confused for a few seconds before realizing there is return fire. This confusion delays looking for source of return fire.

First shot a clean miss, and perp doesn't realize there is return fire because his hearing is impaired by his own firing. He doesn't realize that there is return fire.

There are lots of other possibilities, so again, I'll be interested in seeing what the after action report says.

 

[Defense Minister]

I'm not taking a 75 yard shot with a handgun…. But that's just me. And is there a high probability that your missed shots will impact other innocent civilians?

After putting an optic on my EDC Glock 19 and sighting in at 65 yds., I'd most certainly take a 75 yd. shot if people were dying, and the backstop was clear from what I could observe. That said, I'd still be looking for a way to help stabilize my platform if something were available.

 

[sobo]

It is damn good. It is my understanding he advanced to a column for cover and support to fire accurately.

That's what I"ve read as well. HIs first shot was from 43 yards (that's what the PD is saying now) and was from cover created by a column, which Mr. Dicken used as a support. Unknown how many shots he took from this position. He then advanced and took additional shots as he closed distance.

Think I might go to the range this w/e and try out that Dicken Drill... if it ain't so damned hot...

 

[sobo]

I wish USPSA etc would have consulted a Doctor or medical examiner when they came up with that target...one gets penalized for shots above the A box...ugh! Those are fight ending hits...

I read somewhere a while back why they eliminated the B-Zone. Can't recall why, now... Old age has its problems...

 

[titsonritz]

..

 

[titsonritz]

NM.... I was trying to post something that would not embed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Some things to consider :

If you look long enough you can find an example of something or some things being done...can you do them....?
Train and practice to best of you abilities and situation...also be honest with your limitations.

Every situation is different , no matter how much you train , practice or drill....

It is very important to have a plan...and practice your plan however...
It is also important to have a flexible mindset.
Just because you have planned and practiced A and B with C and D to follow...does not mean that you must always do C and D.
The shooter will not play by your rules or be obliging to what you expect or how you have planned and practiced.

Andy

 

[CLT65]

So it seems that a bunch of people are defending Dicken's shooting performance, whereas what I criticized were the standards for the drill. Yes, what Dicken did was very, very good. Probably better than what I can do today, though the furthest I normally shoot my carry gun is 25yds. That doesn't mean that I should train in a way to accept misses, and it should take nothing away from what he did for me to say that.

For me, that means knowing my limitations -- and if someone is shooting people in a Costco and I don't feel I can get good hits down the full length of an aisle and there is foreground and background that I am concerned about, then I should not be taking shots at the bad guy at that moment. I'm not covered by my police department's insurance policy where if I accidentally wound or kill someone, the agency is (usually) the one footing the bill. And I'm OK with that calculus -- I cannot leave my family sued into oblivion 'cause my ego told me I should shoot someone that is shooting at people outside of my immediate circle. I'm not willing to assume that risk. You do you.

I understand. It would be tragic to miss the bad guy and accidentally kill an innocent.

In the average situation it would be an easier call. If your life or the life of someone you love is in immediate danger, you shoot. We're taught to use extreme caution in using deadly force to protect strangers. A mass shooting situation would be a bit of a unique situation. It would be a helluva judgement call to be made in a moment.

Dicken was lucky that the shooter didn't turn and fire on him. Fortunately most of these lunatics are untrained cowards.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

In my opinion, the standards are too low. In the spirit of being accountable for every round you fire, you should have all rounds on the silhouette. Those two bullets not on target hit something or someone.

I get really tired of armchair quarterbacks who warn against taking a shot at a mass shooter because you might hit a bystander. The bystander is already in jeopardy, and if you do nothing it is a sure thing that more people will die. What is your solution then? Walk away? Wait for the police? In either case more people die. Just taking the shot, hit or not usually ends the event.

 

[titsonritz]

Some info coming out...first shot at approx 40 yards, the following shots at 20 and 10 yards.

Unknown if first shot at 40 was a hit. Appears some shots, unknown how many, were peripheral...arms, fringe torso etc., which penetrated through.

Trying to get video...LE reluctant as is too gruesome, so they say...oh pleeeeeeeeeeeez

I'm hearing the first shot was a solid hit and the game changer, scumbag loses all interest in continuing his evil deeds, goes down and attempts to retreat back into the restroom (where turds belong). The hero advances and put rounds on the turd while it is on the ground until it stops moving. Successful flush.

The big take-aways IMO are when most people were in "WTF is happening" mode, Dicken had the mindset to react to what was happening and the skill to make a difference. That is not something one goes down to the gun counter and purchases. This went down 17 days after constitution carry went into effect, which he carried under and he ignored those stupid "no guns" signs. Hopefully any fence sitting states will fall over into the green and more will wake up and do the same.