The death of Front Sight

[Pandaz3]

I was last there early 2019 for another defensive pistol and Nevada Concealed Carry class (Nevada requires you go through the class every five years). It went well I saw no difference except they had done a lot of new ranges, the new ones seem better than the old ones, as they have simulators adjacent to each one.

Training was good

Sorry to hear, we got clipped I guess, we'll see when we try to return.

We have had at least eight classes so far. I did give away about six memberships, never tried to sell them.

 

[Ironbar]

Well, I called Front Sight yesterday and spoke to Wyatt about why I couldn't log in anymore. He confirmed that I've been banned, my membership has been revoked, and I will be getting a refund check for whatever I paid for my membership.

A lot of people over on the Facebook group are in the same boat as me, receiving varying amounts on their refund checks. Some get what they paid, some are getting far less.

It looks increasingly like FS will go into foreclosure as I've heard that Iggy owes around $11 million, and the FS facility is not worth near that amount.

I feel very bad for those that paid a lot for those memberships. Nobody deserved this, and least of all those that forked over thousands to FS. I truly hope that something good will come of this, and that Piazza and Ackman will be ousted from the Front Sight organization.

*EDIT* It's official. I got my form letter from Front Sight letting me know that due to the, "...tone and content of your communications..." my membership is now closed. Tone & content refers to my being a member of the Front Sight lawsuit Facebook group, and daring to question what's going on with them right now. I also received my refund check- props to Front Sight on that one. I paid $300.00 for my membership upgrade several years ago, and the check is for $400.00. Cashing it.

I seriously hope FS goes into foreclosure, and it's taken over by someone who will run it like a legit business and not a Ponzi scheme.

 

[parallax]

If frontsight implodes, looks like a good opportunity, for someone to buy the facility, maybe get a good deal on it.and its already set up. unless the powers that be, dont want it to ever be a gun range again..
I have not logged on in years,,trying now ,i just logged on, and it appears everything on the site is still functioning. not sure for how long. I still have my "knights of the round table glitter membership" with free lifetime frontsight hotel add on LOL

 

[Nutty4Guns]

I just logged in and see that I have 1,000 bucks of unused credits. Wish I could convert that to cash, lol.

 

[GWS]

$1465! Wow I'm rich! Rich I say!

 

[Diamondback]

Well, I called Front Sight yesterday and spoke to Wyatt about why I couldn't log in anymore. He confirmed that I've been banned, my membership has been revoked, and I will be getting a refund check for whatever I paid for my membership.

A lot of people over on the Facebook group are in the same boat as me, receiving varying amounts on their refund checks. Some get what they paid, some are getting far less.

It looks increasingly like FS will go into foreclosure as I've heard that Iggy owes around $11 million, and the FS facility is not worth near that amount.

I feel very bad for those that paid a lot for those memberships. Nobody deserved this, and least of all those that forked over thousands to FS. I truly hope that something good will come of this, and that Piazza and Ackman will be ousted from the Front Sight organization.

*EDIT* It's official. I got my form letter from Front Sight letting me know that due to the, "...tone and content of your communications..." my membership is now closed. Tone & content refers to my being a member of the Front Sight lawsuit Facebook group, and daring to question what's going on with them right now. I also received my refund check- props to Front Sight on that one. I paid $300.00 for my membership upgrade several years ago, and the check is for $400.00. Cashing it.

I seriously hope FS goes into foreclosure, and it's taken over by someone who will run it like a legit business and not a Ponzi scheme.

Sounds like they have an infiltrator in that group ratting out everyone who joins.

 

[Ironbar]

I just logged in and see that I have 1,000 bucks of unused credits. Wish I could convert that to cash, lol.

Join the Facebook group and start making disparaging remarks about Front Sight.

Sounds like they have an infiltrator in that group ratting out everyone who joins.

Oh we knew that from the get-go. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a major breach of contract.

 

[Flopsweat]

I just logged in and see that I have 1,000 bucks of unused credits. Wish I could convert that to cash, lol.

You should at least stay in the hotel and steal some sheets.

 

[Diamondback]

You should at least stay in the hotel and steal some sheets.

If it actually existed anywhere beyond empty promises...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Didn't really read the whole thread but front sight death is why you grind off your front sight especially in griz country.

 

[Willysmb]

I met Nash a few years before he started FS at a course from Chuck Taylor here at ARPC.

I attended the first 4 day handgun course in Bakersfield, then a few months later the 4 day shotgun course.

The Instructors and courses were beyond excellent, and started me off on a path that has led to a 20+ year career in LE involving being a firearms Instructor (though I prefer the term "Teacher").

However, the amount of mail/email/solicitation I was flooded with after my 2 courses at FS were a giant red flag for me, and I never signed up for any of it.

At one point, FS purchased a bunch of Uzi SMG's and was doing an SMG course. If memory serves, they were doing the same thing with a bunch of M16's. I wonder if those guns were transferable?

Would be nice to see a bunch of those hit the market (though I am doubtful they would be much below current market prices). Still, one can hope......

WMB

 

[Ironbar]

Here's the latest info from Gary Short, as taken from The One Armed man website:

Link: https://static.one-armed-man.com/20220123-front-sight-restructuring/20220304-foreclosure-imminent

There have been some inferences/suggestions and I have had some conversations with several folks that have been concerned that this "lawsuit," "petition," "complaint," and/or "filings" are what is/will be the cause of FS closing down and folks losing out on everything.

Let's be absolutely clear here: As far back as last Nov 2021, IP/FS was facing a foreclosure action that had already been filed. It was in the making for several years at that point in time, It was moving forward. IP was trying to stop it and filed a Stay. IP started "fundraising" by offering Knight memberships long before that when he was facing foreclosure.

THEN, in Jan, 2022, IP introduced the debacle of Gold Status or lose memberships. IP saw the writing on the wall … This was another "fundraising" attempt. It failed when an overwhelming number of members balked. Many were banned for their disagreement. Some folks decided to pay up and upgrade. Now they are being asked to upgrade even more. Regardless of whether you did or did not upgrade, you still did not get to keep or have available all of your original "assets" or membership level benefits as you had prior to Nov, 2021.

THEN, on March 1, the court denied the Stay and the foreclosure action continued to move forward. It will probably be finalized in the next few months. The only way to suspend that or slow it down is for IP to come up with $11m.

EVEN, if no one had balked at the the unilateral takeover. AND, folks had decided to anti [sic] up more money, it still would not have been enough to stop a foregone conclusion: FS WILL be foreclosed upon sometime in the next 6 months. The land/facility might be worth $4-5 million if put up for auction. IP got a $6.5m high interest speculative loan that is now at $11m in principal/interest/penalties. IP does not have (or does not want to dip into his own pockets) that much cash and it does not appear anyone nor any bank will loan him that at this time to restructure and satisfy the loan. Otherwise, he would have paid it and we would not be having this discussion. Simple.

IP does not have $11.5m in collateral value at this facility. IP is not going to put up his personal assets in collateral. IP is simply trying to get as much cash as possible now. He might face criminal fraud and other financial crimes, where his personal assets are not protected. So, he wants to use your assets to protect his assets.

BUT, make no bones about this: your membership has no value/worth in a civil action/complaint, regardless of how much you have paid. When this is all over, all members are on same ground: we all have nothing to show, other than our training experiences at FS. You are last in line over all the other creditors. AND, there is not enough money to pay all of those creditors off. SO, the membership is left with nothing but empty promises and worthless paper memberships.

ONLY, if a criminal fraud/financial action is successful, will anyone with a membership get any recovery, and possibly save FS. The best course of actin [sic] is to pay back the creditors with money WE/YOU have already paid IP/FS, from IP's personal pockets. That's where a lot of it went anyway … So, you see that the best course of action is criminal/fraud/financial crimes.

It also appears that the creditors have no real interest in turning FS property into something else. They are not trying to take it or steal it. The lead abatement alone is a multi decade nightmare/debacle. And, there is plenty of other land around to buy in the desert that can be developed into worthwhile use. The only real asset on FS is the water well. That can be easily drilled anywhere.

— Gary Short

 

[parallax]

Thnxs Ironbar, good post. I feel i am not upside down for the money i put out versus all the classes i took out there. I think everyone who was a member at F.S., knew it was a ponzi scheme to some extent, hopefully no one ended up putting out large sums of money to be a member.

 

[Pandaz3]

We put out a great deal, more than five and six thousand, but we got two FMK's, a LCR 38, four Hawk 982 shotguns and two other guns. We both did two Nevada CCW courses with the four day pistol course preceding them numerous other handgun, shotgun and rifle courses. We bought a lot of stuff when they had good stuff to buy using credit, and a lot of lesser stuff later on. We have 3,000 and 5,000 in credit still there. If I get nothing more, I am not really out much, but I do want to go back, even if I have to buy 'their' ammo! We like the training!

 

[GWS]

I think I got my money's worth out of Front Sight.
Still, it saddens me that things got so out of hand there. I truly believe that Naish Piazza started out with the best of intentions. Then again, we all know what's paved with good intentions.
Nonetheless, 4 Shotgun classes 2 2 day, 1 4-day and 1 4-day advanced tactical shotgun class
Two 2 day and two 4day Defensive Handgun
Two 2 day and two 4 day rifle classes and a 1 day sub machine gun class
All for about a $2000 investment. And this doesn't include the folks I brought on the 2 & 4 day First Family certificates.
I'm satisfied with what I got for my money.

 

[NWGlockgal]

I paid $18 for my membership and definitely got my money's worth. Took multiple classes, got free holsters and mag carriers from the pro shop back when your credits actually bought you stuff. I think I took somewhere between 8-10 classes so I'm not out any money. I do feel bad for the people that paid thousands. Hopefully it survives under different ownership and management. It's actually a very nice range and I enjoyed the instruction.

 

[Member 34319]

I have a friend in Vegas that is a regular of FS. He told me last we talked that everything is back to normal.

He believes the whole fiasco was simply a stunt to get even more money out of its members and such.

IE going out of business is good for business.

He said they raked in a ton of money from donations to members giving and such.

Can't help but wonder if it was just another play by Ingnasius Plazio or whatever the hell his name is.

 

[Flopsweat]

I have a friend in Vegas that is a regular of FS. He told me last we talked that everything is back to normal.

He believes the whole fiasco was simply a stunt to get even more money out of its members and such.

IE going out of business is good for business.

He said they raked in a ton of money from donations to members giving and such.

Can't help but wonder if it was just another play by Ingnasius Plazio or whatever the hell his name is.

 

[Member 34319]

 

[Ironbar]

Here's some more info!