The death of Front Sight

[gmerkt]

Never been there. Most ranges, shooting clubs, etc., have a process in place to expel or bar a member. Authoritarian expulsion for voicing an opinion doesn't seem like a first step. A bankruptcy filing should result in some answers. I.e., mismanagement, fraud or a combination of the two. The grand schemes for hotel /resort facility, hype to promote or a pipe dream. On a smaller scale, we heard all that from the Wash. Arms Collectors for years. They invoked multiple dues increases in order to finance their own meeting hall, and at one time they discussed having an on-site gun range. Never happened, it was way overly ambitious, plus time and the value of money got away from them. Not to mention one round of covered-up potential embezzlement. They finally did buy a little business office, no meeting hall. Wait, if membership gets low enough, it may suffice.

 

[Diamondback]

Never been there. Most ranges, shooting clubs, etc., have a process in place to expel or bar a member. Authoritarian expulsion for voicing an opinion doesn't seem like a first step. A bankruptcy filing should result in some answers. I.e., mismanagement, fraud or a combination of the two. The grand schemes for hotel /resort facility, hype to promote or a pipe dream. On a smaller scale, we heard all that from the Wash. Arms Collectors for years. They invoked multiple dues increases in order to finance their own meeting hall, and at one time they discussed having an on-site gun range. Never happened, it was way overly ambitious, plus time and the value of money got away from them. Not to mention one round of covered-up potential embezzlement. They finally did buy a little business office, no meeting hall. Wait, if membership gets low enough, it may suffice.

Too bad gun-people here can't collectively un-f*ck ourselves and pry our head out of our collective arse to organize into something effective akin to Virginia Citizens' Defense League... too many Drooling Retards who think "oh it'll never happen to me they'll never come for mine just those icky assault rifles."

Well guess what people, they just came for your Glock or one of its most important components with SB5078... and YOU did it yourself when you elected the Party of Seattle.

 

[GWS]

Too bad gun-people here can't collectively un-f*ck ourselves and pry our head out of our collective arse to organize into something effective akin to Virginia Citizens' Defense League... too many Drooling Retards who think "oh it'll never happen to me they'll never come for mine just those icky assault rifles."

Well guess what people, they just came for your Glock or one of its most important components with SB5078... and YOU did it yourself when you elected the Party of Seattle.

What's this got to do with Front Sight?

 

[titsonritz]

The place always seemed fishy to me, IP comes off like a snake oil salesman, IMO.

 

[Diamondback]

What's this got to do with Front Sight?

Commenting on @gmerkt 's perception of a certain degree of parallels between FS and WAC, and one could say by extension NRA.

 

[gmerkt]

parallels between FS and WAC

Some parallels, but some differences. That can apply to a number of other organizations. FS was for profit, WAC isn't. But both are subject to mismanagement or fraud. For profit orgs, the opportunity for money making is always there. Non profit, they are always subject to predation from crooked volunteers, so there is a money taking angle there.

In overall ideology, the anti-gun (mostly) left is very doctrinaire and highly disciplined, usually with well defined goals. The pro-gun (mostly) right tends to be more fractious, as right wing orientations tend to be. It just is.

It's only my opinion, but I don't think you will draw for profits like Front Site into a unified cause. Their main thing is making money, not promoting a viewpoint, even if those may be thought closely related. On the other side of the issue, the anti-gun people don't have this distraction. They aren't in it to make money. It's all about ideology.

Even a respected, Wash. based pro-2A organization has its roots in making money. Business from the non-profit side supports a for profit printing, publishing and mailing firm owned by the non-profit director.

 

[WillametteWill]

In overall ideology, the anti-gun (mostly) left is very doctrinaire and highly disciplined, usually with well defined goals. The pro-gun (mostly) right tends to be more fractious, as right wing orientations tend to be. It just is.

Good point. Presume most of us have noticed the difference between groupthink and freedom. It is the nature of the beast.

 

[ARFrog]

Parallels ???


"Any people, and particularly the Russian people, will always be able to tell apart the patriots from the scum and traitors and spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into their mouths..."

"I am convinced that this natural and necessary self-cleansing of society will only strengthen our country, our solidarity, cohesion, and readiness to meet any challenge." Vladimir Putin


"I needed to identify the ENEMIES within our own ranks. I needed to identify members who if given an opportunity to destroy Front Sight for their own nefarious reasons would in fact try to do so. I realize it's hard to believe, but not every Front Sight member is like you and me. A relatively small number of members have been actively working to destroy Front Sight. Along with attempting to create discontent, ill will, and disruption, some of these members were sending confidential information to our enemies to use against us. In fact, one Front Sight Knight surreptitiously recorded my confidential litigation update I provided to the Knights during the July 4th event and sent it to the attorneys of our enemies to use against us. I CANNOT ALLOW SUCH PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED IN MY PLANS TO TRANSITION FRONT SIGHT FIREAMRS TRAINING INSTITUTE TO MEMBER-OWNED BECAUSE THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO DESTROY YOU TOO." Ignatius Piazza


Parallels...makes one ponder...

 

[Diamondback]

Even a respected, Wash. based pro-2A organization has its roots in making money. Business from the non-profit side supports a for profit printing, publishing and mailing firm owned by the non-profit director.

Right. As an aside, this last sounds like exactly the kind of incestuous business relationships that are the root of so many problems at NRA...

 

[titsonritz]

Parallels ???


"Any people, and particularly the Russian people, will always be able to tell apart the patriots from the scum and traitors and spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into their mouths..."

"I am convinced that this natural and necessary self-cleansing of society will only strengthen our country, our solidarity, cohesion, and readiness to meet any challenge." Vladimir Putin


"I needed to identify the ENEMIES within our own ranks. I needed to identify members who if given an opportunity to destroy Front Sight for their own nefarious reasons would in fact try to do so. I realize it's hard to believe, but not every Front Sight member is like you and me. A relatively small number of members have been actively working to destroy Front Sight. Along with attempting to create discontent, ill will, and disruption, some of these members were sending confidential information to our enemies to use against us. In fact, one Front Sight Knight surreptitiously recorded my confidential litigation update I provided to the Knights during the July 4th event and sent it to the attorneys of our enemies to use against us. I CANNOT ALLOW SUCH PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED IN MY PLANS TO TRANSITION FRONT SIGHT FIREAMRS TRAINING INSTITUTE TO MEMBER-OWNED BECAUSE THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO DESTROY YOU TOO." Ignatius Piazza


Parallels...makes one ponder...

They're both pooters in my book.

 

[Nutty4Guns]

Just got this email today:​ ​ Front Sight Management LLC​

​ Dear Front Sight Member or Former Member, On May 24, 2022, Front Sight Management LLC (the "Debtor") filed a voluntary petition for relief under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code, and the bankruptcy case is pending before the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Nevada under Case No. 22-11824. Additional information about the case may be obtained by visiting www.cases.stretto.com/frontsight or by calling the toll-free case hotline at (855) 553-9468.​

 

[Greenandy]

I just read the same email about the bankruptcy. I'm curious as to where this will lead.

 

[GWS]

I just read the same email about the bankruptcy. I'm curious as to where this will lead.

It will lead to a whole bunch of pissed off Super Deluxe Patriot Ambassador members.

 

[Pandaz3]

As long as I can get in when my medical condition improves (It is slowly). I think it is good solid training, not perfect, but good mass training. Wife likes it.

 

[HelloKitty187]

Who the fock is Ignoranus Pizza??

 

[huzar]

As long as I can get in when my medical condition improves (It is slowly). I think it is good solid training, not perfect, but good mass training. Wife likes it.

They don't seem to have a very good reputation for quality training among non-Front Sight trainers... quite different from, say, how Gunsite is perceived (very expensive, but quality and solid).

 

[Pandaz3]

They don't seem to have a very good reputation for quality training among non-Front Sight trainers... quite different from, say, how Gunsite is perceived (very expensive, but quality and solid).

I don't care about that professional jealousy, training is solid to me who has been there for at least a dozen times;

 

[GWS]

I've taken 12 classes at Front Sight starting back in their Bakersfield/ Chuck Taylor days. In the Bakersfield classes things were a lot looser and the classes were both very instructive and a ton of fun with a lot of 1:1 instruction due to the smaller number of students vs the instructors with Naish dropping in on the classes and helping out with 1:1 instruction. Whatever Piazza's shortcomings were as a businessman, he was a crack shot. He really knew how to run an AR, Glock and Benelli M-1. I couldn't say the same for the Nevada classes. They were more rigid and schedule driven and a lot less personal. I took 5 classes there and thought that as the classes got bigger and more numerous, they were less fun and less instructive. My last class was a 2-day shotgun class in 2015, that as far as I'm concerned was horribly run. Sloppy. It was still safe but the instructor quality was at best mediocre when compared to Bakersfield. People who weren't "getting it" were left behind. I wrote FS with my opinion of the class' shortcomings and listed my reasons for my opinions. I never heard back and stopped going.
If I ever take another class, it will be at Gun Site.

 

[Dr Prepper]

What's front sight? I've never heard of 'em. From a brief glance over though it kinda somewhat sounds a little like tactical sh!t with a subscription?

 

[Dr Prepper]

I've taken 12 classes at Front Sight starting back in their Bakersfield/ Chuck Taylor days. In the Bakersfield classes things were a lot looser and the classes were both very instructive and a ton of fun with a lot of 1:1 instruction due to the smaller number of students vs the instructors with Naish dropping in on the classes and helping out with 1:1 instruction. Whatever Piazza's shortcomings were as a businessman, he was a crack shot. He really knew how to run an AR, Glock and Benelli M-1. I couldn't say the same for the Nevada classes. They were more rigid and schedule driven and a lot less personal. I took 5 classes there and thought that as the classes got bigger and more numerous, they were less fun and less instructive. My last class was a 2-day shotgun class in 2015, that as far as I'm concerned was horribly run. Sloppy. It was still safe but the instructor quality was at best mediocre when compared to Bakersfield. People who weren't "getting it" were left behind. I wrote FS with my opinion of the class' shortcomings and listed my reasons for my opinions. I never heard back and stopped going.
If I ever take another class, it will be at Gun Site.

Oh nm... Lol. "Dig deeper Watson!"