The AR15 isn't special

[arakboss]

I totally agree with where you're coming from. Your statements are accurate. Here's the issue. The grabbers are getting smarter as each day goes by. Granted, they aren't very smart to begin with. But if (or most likely when) this next AWB comes out, we're not going to see strictly "AR15" or "AR15 style/platform" weapons on the ban…

We are going to see a blanketed definition which will prob read something like "semi automatic FIREARM (to include handguns) that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition" (almost guarantee they'll leave out detachable magazine this time, see what happened in CA with the workarounds for that?).

I think if they push out the next ban, they'll get it "right" in their views. It'll basically make anything other than your bolty/lever/revolver/shotty illegal to purchase / transfer / acquire. They'll "allow" us to keep our currently owned guns so long as we "register" them with the NFA. Could you imagine the cost if we had to pay 200 dollars for what we legally own now that fits their description? Good Lord I'm no mathematician but just off the top of my head, the items I own currently that fit their description would at least cost me 20k minimum.



Let's hope Biden bungles this just as bad or worse than all the other things he's bungled since he's been in office

Maybe they will ban semiauto firearms that propel a projectile.

 

[Member 3687]

Hand crank gatling guns for every one! They are not full auto or semi auto, so good to go for all occasions.

A rifle of any type is just a rifle and no more deadly than any other, its the user that makes it deadly.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Hand crank gatling guns for every one! They are not full auto or semi auto, so good to go for all occasions.

A rifle of any type is just a rifle and no more deadly than any other, its the user that makes it deadly.

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Replace hand crank lever with cordless drill (j/k)

 

[Aero Denezol]

If thieves routinely came into my home through an unlocked door, it seems to me the best thing I could do to protect my family today is to lock the door, to make it harder for thieves to come in.

I'm not sure what these people have done to make kids safer today. Seems the current leadership wants to gain a political victory in advance of the midterms, to make you forget that everything is fast becoming unaffordable.

The ultimate goal of the utopist anti-gun left is disarmament of the populace. This can only be done incrementally. A sustained campaign of a thousand cuts. We are well to remember that.

 

[Stomper]

As we all know, the discussion of the moment is the AR15 rifle, and the screaming, yelling, and foaming at the mouth to ban it. I know a lot of you all here really think that the AR is special, and I'm not here to denigrate that. Personally, I'm not an AR guy. I used to shoot them, and still have one, but my primary interest is older guns (nothing against the AR, just a personal preference). I'm also staunchly against a ban in principle, whether if necessarily effects me or not.

An argument that I use when talking to people about guns, is that the AR15 is NOT special. By that I just mean that it doesn't really do anything that many other designs can't. Yes, it does many things better than many older designs- it's a modular design that is easily modified or repaired, it's accurate and reliable, etc., but many other designs will shoot the same type and quantity of bullets just as fast. In a horrible shootings that we've seen recently, would it have made any substantive difference if the perps had used 80 year old M1 carbines instead? A 30 carbine soft point is very lethal at close range, a good one can be very reliable, and precision accuracy is not an issue here. Same size magazine, shoots just as fast. (note that I'm NOT saying it's just as good for military service)

Not that I ever want there to be shooting involving old guns either; I think it goes without saying that we all never want these things to happen again. My point is just that in the context of criminal misuse of firearms, the AR is not some kind of death ray that is head-and-shoulders above everything else in terms of lethality. It shoots that same little 5.56 round that was derided in Vietnam as being under-powered. The media and gun control crowd has the otherwise ignorant masses convinced that it's an unstoppable death ray that mows down everything in it's path, and it's not. I think it's worthwhile to point out that the little M1 Carbine, for example, has been around for 81 years, was very cheap, common, and readily accessible especially in the second half of the 20th century, and we didn't see this kind of thing every other week. Times were different, but guns were everywhere. The culture has changed, but the accessibility and lethality of guns hasn't. Even the AR has been around since 1959, though not as commonplace until more recent decades.

My point is specifically that it's not the tool that's the problem here; it's the deranged, demented mind of the evil human being behind the trigger. Taking away one tool won't stop a determined psycho from simply using another one.

What's "special" about the AR platform is it's (actual) simplicity of design, ergonomics, few wearable parts, ease of maintenance "in the field", and modularity of parts whereas many other designs required parts to be "custom fitted" to each specimen.

 

[nwslopoke]

The "AR" designation certainly hasn't help dimish the misconception of the platform, either.

If only there had been the foresight back in the day to go with something more appropriate. Like... an "HS-15" or "GP-15" that would make it much more difficult to vilify the rifle we would be much better off.

("Happy Stick" or "Giggle Pipe", respectively.)

I wouldn't focus on that since (paid puppet) law makers and media outright law about everything else pertaining to them

The AR15 is a military grade weapon. Really? How so? The M16 and M4 have a specific standard to meet. Which AR15s actually meet that standard.

The AR15 was designed to kill. It's a gun. Please supply a list of guns not designed to kill.

They play free and loose by saying AR15 pattern rifle and still slide in the term, automatic (Whoopi Goldberg). Many Hollywood types now admit to owning guns, but only the approved non killing one's? Not sure how that works. Only actors are smart and brave enough to be able to kill with their guns?

 

[Member 3687]

In 1966 Charles Whitman killed 15 plus one un born baby and a one other person died later due to complications from the shooting for a total of 17 and a other 31 where injured in the process and he did not use a AR15.

He did have a semi auto shot gun, M1 carbine and a luger all semi auto but most I think where killed with the bolt action .6mm. He had several other guns as well.

As folks have said before it is not the tool it is the person and you will never stop every person that is willing to do evil.

The AR15 was designed to kill. It's a gun. Please supply a list of guns not designed to kill.

Your are correct all guns can take life if that is the persons intention but they can save life as well by protecting the owner.

As far as military grade please define what is military grade as guns of every type have been used in military's all over the world from flint locks, to procession cap, bolt action, semi auto and a whole verity I have not mentioned.

When I was in the navy they had Ruger Black Hawks in the system that could be ordered if your unit was authorized.

Many of us say we own guns for a possible SHTF or to protect us from a tyrannical Government well if that happen would your AR or any other gun you own now become a weapon of war.

The Second Amendment is about THE PEOPLE being able to protect themselves from a Tyrannical Government and to do that you need weapons of WAR or at least could be used as one.

Maybe we need to change our strategy and start owning up to the fact most of us own these guns to protect our family's, our cities, our county's, our states and our country form enemy's both foreign and domestic!

My guns are not currently weapons of war but could be, if the need arises.

Just look at Ukraine, do you think they are not using their hunting rifles as weapons of war at the moment.

 

[Diamondback]

Curious that there's as much by-name hate for the M1 Carbine every bill they introduce as the AR family, and they're only exceeded by the AK family and the Thompson...

 

[bcp]

The AR17 must be at least 2 scarier than an AR15.

Bruce

 

[CLT65]

I'm actually a big fan of the M1 Carbine, one of my favorite guns. I used it as an example of a nearly century old design that's been in very common usage for a very long time.

My main point in this thread is that the gun control lobby has been focusing with laser-intensity on the AR15, to get people worked up with righteous hatred towards this one evil object. Of course the resulting restrictions will encompass much more. The goal is to get people to understand that the problem is mental health and human depravity.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...My main point in this thread is that the gun control lobby has been focusing with laser-intensity on the AR15, to get people worked up with righteous hatred towards this one evil object...

Disagree. They don't know enough to be focused on one specific gun. They are focused on "scary" assault rifles. They would get rid of all guns if they could, the MFers.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Who was it that said "Mr and Mrs American, turn in your handguns!" ?


Edit. They first wanted to ban handguns in the 80s-90s before rifles but it apparently didn't go over well so the focus pivoted to scary rifles.

They did manage to stop mail order sales without FFLs for rifles and almost completely stop handgun sales across states , requiring FFLs and bg checks (no more interstate private party handgun sales) back in the 60s

 

[CLT65]

Disagree. They don't know enough to be focused on one specific gun. They are focused on "scary" assault rifles. They would get rid of all guns if they could, the MFers.

Yes, for the gun control lobby and hard core gun haters, absolutely. Their minds are made up. I'm talking about the average "swing voter" type of person.

Many times I've heard people say something along the lines of "I don't have a problem with guns, but these AR15's are something else! Nobody needs those!"

They truly do have this ignorant idea that an AR is a whole new level of lethal, like a literal death ray. I had a coworker like that a few years back, after Sandy Hook. I told him that an AR was just a rifle. He came unglued; you'd think I'd insulted his mother. "JUST A RIFLE?!!" He ranted for an hour about how shameful it was that our country allowed people to have such dangerous and evil things. He wouldn't believe me that they had been available for half a century already.

 

[HA556]

YO, AR15......

 

[Ura-Ki]

We have so many anti gun people speaking out now days, from collage professors, MSM talking heads, professional politicians, celebrities', and athletes and many others, no wonder the truth gets lost in the shuffle, it's all part of the plan! They don't even bother keeping the quiet parts quiet now!
Just today, the dems have thrown down on their absolute demands, they will crush the filibuster, and stack the SCOTUS to get what they demand and there will be no compromise! They don't even care that SCOTUS upholds the 2nd, they will simply steam roll it and get what they want, total disarmament, and to remove the 2nd without the actual process needed to change it! We have Academics' claiming the 2nd doesn't give certain rights or powers, and only recently with Heller did the court side with the pro 2ns side saying we have the individual right! WHat cracks me up is how all these academics come up with such bullsh!t in the first place, as if any reasonable person could make something out of this air to say what they want instead of what it says or doesn't! I love all the politicians who got super mad when SCOTUS rules on Heller, they all claimed SCOTUS was wrong, that the 2nd dosn't grant individual rights, and all that!

This is the real fight were fighting, now is not the time to give up or give in, the day we actually need to use the 2nd for what it was intended is here NOW, so it's time to dig them up and put them to use! Sorry, but that's the truth of it, it's where we are today!

 

[CamoDeafie]

This is the real fight were fighting, now is not the time to give up or give in, the day we actually need to use the 2nd for what it was intended is here NOW, so it's time to dig them up and put them to use! Sorry, but that's the truth of it, it's where we are today!

Too many people are comfortable, enjoying a relatively good life (at least, compared to places like the Middle East, Central-South America, Western Asia, and so forth) that they'll follow along with whatever the politicans think will keep their votes and seats. Life will have to get much harder, say, a 2nd Great Depression, shades of 1930s Europe, and sort of like whats going on in Ukraine before people wake up and realize that govt is not their protector nor friend.

 

[CLT65]

It's hard for "gun people" to understand the level of ignorance of how guns work among the average population. A rifle is just this thing that spits out death. The inner workings are a mystery.

My wife is not a car person. She knows very little about pistons and valves, intake manifolds and fuel injectors. The engine is a mysterious box that makes her car go when she pushes down on the gas.

If I told her that there's a new model Ford that can go zero to mach 1 in 12 seconds, and fly, well, actually she's smarter than that, but some people would buy it.

Another example would be computers. To many if not most people, a computer is a black box, the actual workings of which are a complete mystery. If a certain model/make of computer gained notoriety as the preferred tool of hackers who scammed old ladies out of their life savings, and turned off life support at hospitals, there would be calls for controls on this superior piece of technology.

But is that computer really something technologically advanced beyond normal computers, or is it functionally just a normal computer that's really popular because it's more robust, modular, and user-friendly, but otherwise doesn't actually do anything that another computer can't?

That's why I say that the AR isn't anything particularly special.

 

[nwslopoke]

Who was it that said "Mr and Mrs American, turn in your handguns!" ?


Edit. They first wanted to ban handguns in the 80s-90s before rifles but it apparently didn't go over well so the focus pivoted to scary rifles.

They did manage to stop mail order sales without FFLs for rifles and almost completely stop handgun sales across states , requiring FFLs and bg checks (no more interstate private party handgun sales) back in the 60s

Diane "Spy driver" Feinstein. It really seems a lot of mass shooters in fact pass BGC. Well, enough to logically question their effectiveness. Magazine limits didn't stop the Florida hs shooter. It was written he used 10 mags to fit in his bag. Or, like in several cases, they can just say an AR15 was used eventhough it wasn't. The shipyard in Connecticut (?), and Umpqua college. Details, the truth or semantics are unimportant.

Who actually thinks the powers that be believe removing legal guns with no promise or stated plan to remove illegal guns will make us safer? I have read after the initial removal of guns in western societies causes a spike in crime. Since that fails those countries force innocent victims to not retaliate or defend themselves further by punishing those that do.

 

[arakboss]

I would argue the AR15 is special. No other platform I own can be so easily and inexpensively converted to shoot so many different cartridges.

 

[CLT65]

I would argue the AR15 is special. No other platform I own can be so easily and inexpensively converted to shoot so many different cartridges.


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I don't disagree in that regard. Michael Jordan is special in that he's one helluva athlete, but he's still just a human being who puts his pants on one leg at a time.