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As we all know, the discussion of the moment is the AR15 rifle, and the screaming, yelling, and foaming at the mouth to ban it. I know a lot of you all here really think that the AR is special, and I'm not here to denigrate that. Personally, I'm not an AR guy. I used to shoot them, and still have one, but my primary interest is older guns (nothing against the AR, just a personal preference). I'm also staunchly against a ban in principle, whether if necessarily effects me or not.

An argument that I use when talking to people about guns, is that the AR15 is NOT special. By that I just mean that it doesn't really do anything that many other designs can't. Yes, it does many things better than many older designs- it's a modular design that is easily modified or repaired, it's accurate and reliable, etc., but many other designs will shoot the same type and quantity of bullets just as fast. In a horrible shootings that we've seen recently, would it have made any substantive difference if the perps had used 80 year old M1 carbines instead? A 30 carbine soft point is very lethal at close range, a good one can be very reliable, and precision accuracy is not an issue here. Same size magazine, shoots just as fast. (note that I'm NOT saying it's just as good for military service)

Not that I ever want there to be shooting involving old guns either; I think it goes without saying that we all never want these things to happen again. My point is just that in the context of criminal misuse of firearms, the AR is not some kind of death ray that is head-and-shoulders above everything else in terms of lethality. It shoots that same little 5.56 round that was derided in Vietnam as being under-powered. The media and gun control crowd has the otherwise ignorant masses convinced that it's an unstoppable death ray that mows down everything in it's path, and it's not. I think it's worthwhile to point out that the little M1 Carbine, for example, has been around for 81 years, was very cheap, common, and readily accessible especially in the second half of the 20th century, and we didn't see this kind of thing every other week. Times were different, but guns were everywhere. The culture has changed, but the accessibility and lethality of guns hasn't. Even the AR has been around since 1959, though not as commonplace until more recent decades.

My point is specifically that it's not the tool that's the problem here; it's the deranged, demented mind of the evil human being behind the trigger. Taking away one tool won't stop a determined psycho from simply using another one.
 
The AR15 that I own ain't no different the one of my antique flintlocks....
Both are just rifles.

With that said....
Perception is everything at times...and for many folks the popular perception of , or their own perception of either a AR15 or flintlock rifle can lead to a false assumption of both.
Andy
 
5i96nvl8rgr71.png

This is a good visual aid to bust out.
 
The "AR" designation certainly hasn't help dimish the misconception of the platform, either.

If only there had been the foresight back in the day to go with something more appropriate. Like... an "HS-15" or "GP-15" that would make it much more difficult to vilify the rifle we would be much better off.

("Happy Stick" or "Giggle Pipe", respectively.) :D
 
As we all know, the discussion of the moment is the AR15 rifle, and the screaming, yelling, and foaming at the mouth to ban it. I know a lot of you all here really think that the AR is special, and I'm not here to denigrate that. Personally, I'm not an AR guy. I used to shoot them, and still have one, but my primary interest is older guns (nothing against the AR, just a personal preference). I'm also staunchly against a ban in principle, whether if necessarily effects me or not.

An argument that I use when talking to people about guns, is that the AR15 is NOT special. By that I just mean that it doesn't really do anything that many other designs can't. Yes, it does many things better than many older designs- it's a modular design that is easily modified or repaired, it's accurate and reliable, etc., but many other designs will shoot the same type and quantity of bullets just as fast. In a horrible shootings that we've seen recently, would it have made any substantive difference if the perps had used 80 year old M1 carbines instead? A 30 carbine soft point is very lethal at close range, a good one can be very reliable, and precision accuracy is not an issue here. Same size magazine, shoots just as fast. (note that I'm NOT saying it's just as good for military service)

Not that I ever want there to be shooting involving old guns either; I think it goes without saying that we all never want these things to happen again. My point is just that in the context of criminal misuse of firearms, the AR is not some kind of death ray that is head-and-shoulders above everything else in terms of lethality. It shoots that same little 5.56 round that was derided in Vietnam as being under-powered. The media and gun control crowd has the otherwise ignorant masses convinced that it's an unstoppable death ray that mows down everything in it's path, and it's not. I think it's worthwhile to point out that the little M1 Carbine, for example, has been around for 81 years, was very cheap, common, and readily accessible especially in the second half of the 20th century, and we didn't see this kind of thing every other week. Times were different, but guns were everywhere. The culture has changed, but the accessibility and lethality of guns hasn't. Even the AR has been around since 1959, though not as commonplace until more recent decades.

My point is specifically that it's not the tool that's the problem here; it's the deranged, demented mind of the evil human being behind the trigger. Taking away one tool won't stop a determined psycho from simply using another one.
I totally agree with where you're coming from. Your statements are accurate. Here's the issue. The grabbers are getting smarter as each day goes by. Granted, they aren't very smart to begin with. But if (or most likely when) this next AWB comes out, we're not going to see strictly "AR15" or "AR15 style/platform" weapons on the ban…

We are going to see a blanketed definition which will prob read something like "semi automatic FIREARM (to include handguns) that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition" (almost guarantee they'll leave out detachable magazine this time, see what happened in CA with the workarounds for that?).

I think if they push out the next ban, they'll get it "right" in their views. It'll basically make anything other than your bolty/lever/revolver/shotty illegal to purchase / transfer / acquire. They'll "allow" us to keep our currently owned guns so long as we "register" them with the NFA. Could you imagine the cost if we had to pay 200 dollars for what we legally own now that fits their description? Good Lord I'm no mathematician but just off the top of my head, the items I own currently that fit their description would at least cost me 20k minimum.

:eek:

Let's hope Biden bungles this just as bad or worse than all the other things he's bungled since he's been in office
 
Not sure how relevant this is because the anti gunners are not after just ar15s, they are after all assault rifles (and probably anything else they think they could get banned).
 
I don't know much about law...
But I do know that....
After a gun law is passed...there is always another one waiting in the wings to futher erode the 2nd Amendment.

We already have 20,000 gun laws in place...
If gun laws were effective...then why do we need so damn many...and more of 'em ?

If you want the same result you have been getting...
Keep doing the same.
If you want different results...you gotta do something different.

Its almost as if...it ain't about safety or crime prevention here...but more like control of the people....:rolleyes:
Andy
 
Not sure how relevant this is because the anti gunners are not after just ar15s, they are after all assault rifles (and probably anything else they think they could get banned).
that begs the question wtf is an assault rifle? it seems like the definition for anti gunners are "any rifle"
 
that begs the question wtf is an assault rifle? it seems like the definition for anti gunners are "any rifle"
Yea, at this point I would be comfortable saying two elements of the definition will likely be semi auto and >10 round magazine but beyond that who knows. CA laws and previous 1994-2004 ban gives some reference points though.
 
Yea, at this point I would be comfortable saying two elements of the definition will likely be semi auto and >10 round magazine but beyond that who knows. CA laws and previous 1994-2004 ban gives some reference points though.
basically its "scary looking" guns that they saw in a movie at some point
 
The "AR" designation certainly hasn't help dimish the misconception of the platform, either.

If only there had been the foresight back in the day to go with something more appropriate. Like... an "HS-15" or "GP-15" that would make it much more difficult to vilify the rifle we would be much better off.

("Happy Stick" or "Giggle Pipe", respectively.) :D
At the time they DID. AR refers to Armalite Rifle division, Fairchild Industries.
 
I totally agree with where you're coming from. Your statements are accurate. Here's the issue. The grabbers are getting smarter as each day goes by. Granted, they aren't very smart to begin with. But if (or most likely when) this next AWB comes out, we're not going to see strictly "AR15" or "AR15 style/platform" weapons on the ban…

We are going to see a blanketed definition which will prob read something like "semi automatic FIREARM (to include handguns) that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition" (almost guarantee they'll leave out detachable magazine this time, see what happened in CA with the workarounds for that?).

I think if they push out the next ban, they'll get it "right" in their views. It'll basically make anything other than your bolty/lever/revolver/shotty illegal to purchase / transfer / acquire. They'll "allow" us to keep our currently owned guns so long as we "register" them with the NFA. Could you imagine the cost if we had to pay 200 dollars for what we legally own now that fits their description? Good Lord I'm no mathematician but just off the top of my head, the items I own currently that fit their description would at least cost me 20k minimum.

:eek:

Let's hope Biden bungles this just as bad or worse than all the other things he's bungled since he's been in office
I think you're right. Every time they make a narrow ban, people find the "loopholes". I have no doubt they'll want to make it all-encompassing.

My point is to try to educate the clueless masses, who have been led to believe that the AR is a death ray, something totally new and exceptionally lethal. A lot of people really believe this. They get worked up emotionally, because there's this one rifle that's really bad, so much worse than anything before; can't we just ban this evil AR, and then everything will be OK again? Of course it's a bait-and-switch when they make the law, but by then it's too late, and they won't care anyway.

My biggest point that I like to make is that these types of guns have been around for a long time. I asked a coworker some time back how long he thought the dreaded AR had been around. He guessed 20 years, and wouldn't believe me when I told him 60 years. The guns and access to them hasn't changed substantively in decades, so how is a ban going to make the problem go away?
 
I think you're right. Every time they make a narrow ban, people find the "loopholes". I have no doubt they'll want to make it all-encompassing.

My point is to try to educate the clueless masses, who have been led to believe that the AR is a death ray, something totally new and exceptionally lethal. A lot of people really believe this. They get worked up emotionally, because there's this one rifle that's really bad, so much worse than anything before; can't we just ban this evil AR, and then everything will be OK again? Of course it's a bait-and-switch when they make the law, but by then it's too late, and they won't care anyway.

My biggest point that I like to make is that these types of guns have been around for a long time. I asked a coworker some time back how long he thought the dreaded AR had been around. He guessed 20 years, and wouldn't believe me when I told him 60 years. The guns and access to them hasn't changed substantively in decades, so how is a ban going to make the problem go away?
Yeah you're right about this. I work with MAJORITY conservative gun toting fellas and I've had to explain to quite a few of them that AR does not stand for assault rifle lol. And these are pro gunners. Imagine the absolute misinformation that's bouncing around the watering hole of the anti gunners.


Yeah I agree with what you're saying that ar15 is not the end all be all rifle and it's not a death ray or special, but man it sure does a good job of sending seeds of freedom. But for someone like myself (and I'm sure you as well), I can do just as much damage with a lever gun that I can with an AR :)
 

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