Texas mother shoots 5 year old son while trying to shoot puppy

[Member 52301]

BOTH parties are to blame.

The dog owner. The dog too!

The dumb @@@ 'mother'.

Was the dog on RECORD for getting loose and charging/running people?

Follow the trail and connect the dots. I bet this was not the FIRST INCIDENT of 'said dog'.

THAT is what happens here in MT a lot and I mean a lot in small towns, college towns and in rural areas - ranches.

Get a BUNCH of FERAL or domesticated dogs OR even ONE feral or so called domesticated dog and they will KILL, charge and attack other dogs, people and LIVESTOCK not just cattle!

Those loose dogs do not pay attention to private or public land just as much as the STUPID OWNERS DON'T TOO.

Another thing, I have noticed this out here a LOT. People seem to DUMP DOGS A LOT too. We had this happen close to our land too.

ALL of that open land behind us all of the way down to the river = lots of land.

Some dogs CHASE DEER which is illegal just as much as they chase the large amount of ducks and geese around here due to the rivers and LARGE PONDS - small lakes behind us. ALL of that no build zone area.

The Mother should not have BRED or given birth to a kid - no offense.

Cate

 

[RVTECH]

BOTH parties are to blame.

The dog owner. The dog too!

Cant really blame the dog!

 

[Member 52301]

Cant really blame the dog!

Yes, you can or I CAN BLAME the dog. I do blame the dog. The dog is NOT an inanimate object that jumped out of a home willy nilly and decided to charge/run after a kid or other people.

I blame the dumb @@@ Mother AND the dog owner too.

BOTH of them are to blame but if a DOG chases, charges or tries to attack any kid, any adult of any age, even an elderly person or another pet or FARM ANIMAL... the DOG did the deed.

But meanwhile the idiots who BRED a kid AND are irresponsible parents and/or OWNED and did not TRAIN THEIR DOG properly are to blame too.

The dog should have stayed inside the home or on the property and NOT chased or run down the street or sidewalk.

Your mileage may vary. NO problem.

Western culture, THIS SIDE of the continental divide, has an entirely different outlook when it comes to their PETS or dogs in many cases - that is one thing that I have noticed a LOT. My MT born and raised husband tells me that HE sees people that think this way when it comes to not blaming the poor pet aka dog. LOL NO offense. EFF that thinking is my outlook.

Talk to some ranchers out HERE and farmers back east too that I know and you will get an EARFUL about LOOSE AND CHARGING so called domesticated PETS and FERAL DOGS and both of them RUN IN PACKS.

Some of these PET OWNERS REMIND ME of the stupid and irresponsible BIKE RIDERS in town and outside of town too.

Take care.

Cate

 

[RVTECH]

The dog should have stayed inside the home or on the property

Yes it should have and it is the responsibility of the owner to control it.

My point of 'not blaming the dog' is because a dog cannot be expected to control itself and will most likely take off if given the opportunity by the owner.

 

[Member 52301]

Yes it should have and it is the responsibility of the owner to control it.

My point of 'not blaming the dog' is because a dog cannot be expected to control itself and will most likely take off if given the opportunity by the owner.

I disagree with you 100% about what a dog can be EXPECTED TO DO.

MOST dogs that are DOMESTICATED, not just TRAINED WELL by a person who has a CLUE - I trained my own dogs, I helped train other dogs as a FAVOR back east including my MT neighbor man's dog HERE by my house. He lives across the street from me. His side of his house faces the FRONT of my house which is 4 houses on this dead end street and close to a small cattle farm to the EAST of me.

He is a NICE OLDER MAN but he was clueless when it came to dog ownership in MY opinion!

I TALK TO DOGS like they are people.

I loved and respected my dogs as a family member with a PULSE and beating heart.
Those types of DOMESTICATED DOGS - MOST FAMILY DOGS do NOT JUST TAKE OFF and run away from a GOOD DOG OWNER.

I am NOT saying that some things can't happen but it is NOT always the case.

My neighbor man had a dog when he was a kid and he complained about it and I was shocked on how dense he was when it came to DOG and pet ownership in general.

Western culture? Beats me because my MT husband is not like that when it comes to DOGS.

So when the older, nice neighbor man adopted/bought this pure bred dog - a border collie - he was really DENSE in dog ownership.

He is a NICE MAN but he was not smart with dogs. He ASKED ME FOR HELP and the dog LISTENED TO ME, followed what I told her to do, I spoke to her a LOT and I breathed into her face and held her like a BABY-KID when he first brought her home.
She LOVED TO BE HERE more than with him. NO kidding but I made it clear to her and the NEIGHBOR man that SHE BELONGED TO HIM and her HOME WAS ACROSS THE STREET.

SHE COULD VISIT ME with his permission or he could bring her over but she was NOT my dog and HE was her Daddy aka her OWNER.

He was dense in DOG LAWS and tried to say it was this or that when I said that the MEANING WAS CLEAR not just with a VOICE COMMAND OFF OF HIS OWN PROPERTY within specific county and city limits. I even SHOWED HIM the paperwork on the city website and on the LICENSE INFORMATION. Plus tons more.
Leash laws, check ups, license tags, etc.

I never had that happen WHERE MY DOGS JUST WANTED TO RUN AWAY from my land/house and I owned dogs from when I was brought home as a baby until I was 51.5 years old.

They WANTED TO STAY with me, with my late husband, within our house and ON OUR PROPERTY even if they were LOOSE on our land... they did not want to RUN OFF willy nilly ever.

E V E R!

County, suburbs, and within city limits. They never wanted to RUN AWAY and no family member of MINE nor I ever had to run after them, call them HOME and try to look for them OFF OF OUR OWN PROPERTY no matter where we lived.

They stayed IN our home or on our LAND with or without a fence.

I mean NO offense to you or to any other person when I say this. I just disagree with you in this matter.

Cate

 

[RVTECH]

Cate, you are missing my point.

The definition of 'blame' is assign responsibility for a fault or wrong .

Responsibility is the act of having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role - and this cannot be applied to a dog.

This is why their are dog laws and The OWNER bears full responsibility for the dog and its actions, and is the one who will face any legal action for them.

You may talk to dogs like they are people - but they are NOT people.....

 

[CRBMoA]

For those taking notes, the above exchange is what it looks like when two adults disagree and respectfully exchange ideas. Neither one will likely change position today, but they have shared different points of view - one of the reasons we are here.

I am preaching to myself here, too. I am often more confrontational than needed.

 

[Flopsweat]

One thing is for sure: that kid will never argue with mom.

Or throw it in her face forever, "What are you going to do, shoot me...again?"

He may not see much of her for a while, which may be a good thing. She doesn't seem to have compression in all cylinders.

 

[Member 52301]

Cate, you are missing my point.

The definition of 'blame' is assign responsibility for a fault or wrong .

Responsibility is the act of having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role - and this cannot be applied to a dog.

This is why their are dog laws and The OWNER bears full responsibility for the dog and its actions, and is the one who will face any legal action for them.

You may talk to dogs like they are people - but they are NOT people.....

NO offense again to you.

I believe that you are missing my POINT HERE.

And IF you do not understand ME - IT is what IT is. I can't keep trying to explain something over and over again.

YOUR mind is made up.

My mind is made up and ALL OF IT IS CLEAR TO ME - CRYSTAL CLEAR.

We will agree to disagree with one another and continue on with our friendship as always.

Are you a dog owner? If so how many years have you owned dogs? What about your family or friends? I am curious and my point will be made CLEAR to you and, if not, we will just have to disagree. LOL

I consider you an old and trusted friend so here goes.

I NEED TO MAKE MY PRINT BIGGER TO YOU WHILE TYPING DUE TO MY EYES TOO.
THANK YOU.

First of all - we do AGREE THAT THE DOG OWNER is to blame, bla and bla. OTHER posts. I do KNOW THE LAW VERY, VERY WELL when it comes to that in some East Coast states, in my former farm/lake state and OUT HERE in THIS COUNTY, THIS CITY, in some OTHER MT COUNTIES and tons more.

(The dumb bunny mother was wrong with her willy nilly shooting in this news STORY - situation too. WE agree there too.)

I almost had to TESTIFY IN COURT here in THIS MT COUNTY and told the POLICE and the ANIMAL CONTROL PEOPLE that I would do that IF I was called to do this but I just wanted the matter SETTLED. TOO LONG TO TYPE.

OTHER people were willing to testify and back me up telling what THEY PUT UP WITH TOO. But I am the one who finally MADE AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT after several years of asking the people to CONTROL their dogs, other people BEGGING them, a RE agent, a worthless landlord who only wanted the rent until that old house down there was sold, the property management people, etc.

I SHOULD NOT HAVE 'HAD' TO GO TO COURT BUT I DANG WELL WOULD AFTER TRYING TO BE NICE AND POLITE FOR SO LONG AND PUTTING UP WITH CRAZY @@@ DOG OWNERS, DUMPED DOGS, KNOWN VICIOUS/CHASING DOGS, TONS OF WITNESSES, PICTURES AND MORE.

OTHER WITNESSES AND MANY OTHER PEOPLE MADE COMPLAINTS. A BITING HAPPENED BUT I WAS NOT BIT - CLOSE TO IT BUT NO TEETH MARKS. LOTS of foaming at the mouth and growling and being cornered and/or chased. Larger dogs not just by the crazy @@@ owner of some NASTY smaller dogs. MANY dumped dogs here too.

IT DOES NOT PAY TO BE NICE AND POLITE OR EVEN LADY LIKE FOR SO LONG WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH CRAZY and/or nasty/irresponsible people aka the people who used to live in a now sold for several years but former estate's ranch home WAY DOWN the road/street from me who had a crazy history with dogs and tons more which is TOO MUCH for me to type out now.

So I do KNOW the law and out here it is much SLOWER than back east since Animal Control is not that great in MY opinion until you get a GOOD AC OFFICER WHO ACTUALLY HAS A CLUE and does her freaking JOB. Plus getting a GOOD law enforcement man helps too.

IN THE END, I did not have to go to court but the dog owner and one of the crazy people in the formerly rented old ranch house WAY DOWN the road from me did have to go to court AND PAY a fine plus more. NO shots, no license tags, etc. mess.

The crazy man, who kept up crapola with those charging dogs EVEN AFTER he went to court was WELL KNOWN TO THE LE MAN WHO CAME TO HELP ME and I learned more there. Yes sir ree.

The LE MAN personally called the LANDLORD, made stops to the home several times since he knew the crazy man, spoke to him and the other relatives, took extra pictures, came back to me, he continued to keep in contact with me and he TOLD ME POINT BLANK that if AC DID NOT COME TO MY AID asap when I needed them to call 911 and/or HIM too. Because he could not TRUST the crazy man and that IS a fact.

The LE MAN and the AC people said that the DOGS (OR DOG in some cases.) were TO BLAME and it was not just on the dog owner or owners.

PLUS A DOG COULD BE TAKEN AWAY and/or put down due to a HISTORY OF ATTACKS, biting, charging, running LOOSE ALL OVER in the streets, off of their own land, on public/private sidewalks, sanitation - not cleaned up, not up to date shots and licenses and due to POOR ANIMAL CONTROL by any dog owner. Plus if their vicious attack did super serious damage and a DEATH to another person, dog, pet, farm animal, etc.

So in the END, A DOG IS RESPONSIBLE and 'said dog' will be dealt with IF IT CONTINUES ON WITH POOR and VICIOUS BEHAVIOR (City, county, rural, suburbs or small town.) WHEN A REPORT IS FINALLY MADE. Plus one or more pet owners will be HELD RESPONSIBLE if there is more than one dog in a home too.

BUT the DOG IS STILL accountable if it HURTS, CHARGES, BITES, MAULS, TRIES TO KILL YOU, YOUR OWN PET, ANY OTHER FAMILY MEMBER OR FRIEND/VISITOR, ANY FARM ANIMAL and tons more INCLUDING KILLING AN ANIMAL OR A PERSON.

RUNNING deer is ILLEGAL in this state according to the law and to my husband.

THAT is not taken lightly here!

Sometimes the LIBERALS in .gov work give more of a DANG to chased deer than chased/charged/attacked SMALL KIDS, other people including the ELDERLY and other pets and dogs. Uh huh.

As far as TALKING TO DOGS GO... almost ALL GOOD DOG OWNERS that I DO KNOW WELL including me in the past (Up until 51.5 years old.) do TALK and communicate to their dogs. (And sometimes cats too!) I spoke to my sister's cats many years ago when I visited her in MD before she moved to FL.

Maybe you do not know that or never did it or KNEW people who spoke to dogs other than 'commands'. Beats me.

IT is common to me but I have no clue about where you live.

We do have a nice Oregon man here now who has 2 dogs and HE IS A VERY GOOD DOG OWNER. He seems to talk to his dogs and not just give them commands. He is with his dogs more than his wife from what I can tell too. My husband has spoken to him and seen him with his dogs too. He is super careful about being a responsible and GOOD dog owner. I do not know what part of Oregon that he is from.

Another example to you here:

I hate to break it to you but EVERY SINGLE VET that I took my dogs to SPOKE TO MY DOGS too. ONE of my old Vets in my former state was a MARINE and a Vietnam War Veteran who became a vet and made house calls to some farms too!

The office clerk, a nice lady, spoke to MY dogs and to OTHER DOGS in the waiting room while I was writing my check to her! She greeted my husband, my dogs and me. Or one dog at a time if I got a second dog and it was her first puppy check up. Or an emergency call when my GS nailed the criminal in my breezeway trying to break into my house and garage.

My vets in Maryland spoke to my dogs too. Apparently one did in NY but I do not remember that one since I was one year old when I moved to MD.

Plus when it came to my adopted pound puppy at the county shelter, Muffie - the Finnish Samoyed white puppy, she was dropped off aka DUMPED with her sisters/brothers in a BOX BY A RIVER and someone found them and brought them to my former county shelter. So my Vet said that she needed an OFFICIAL BIRTH DATE for his records.

So he judged her age AFTER A THOROUGH CHECK UP, I gave him the shelter's information and he said to her, "Muffie, I give you March something or other for your OFFICIAL date of birth!" Uh huh.

I did not just BARK DOG COMMANDS to my dogs. NO pun intended on the words bark dog commands. I did not just ORDER MY DOGS AROUND with NO personal communication showing MY love and respect for them.

Besides MOST DOGS KNOW what is going on with you due to your actions and emotions especially if you are happy, sad, tired, in fear, angry, sick and/or dying.

They KNOW your feelings most of the time even before you TALK to them or 'give them a command'.

And that is even BEFORE YOU HUG THEM, smile at them when you come home from work or being away, cuddle them as puppies, make them a nice bed, give them a bath/shower, feed or water them, ask them if they want to go out and play or walk on a leash or go for a ride or to their kennel or run loose with you being with THEM at all times on your own land and even take them to a BEACH TO SWIM with you!

My late husband had one GS male dog before he knew me, before his military - Nam and all around the world time, he was imported as a puppy by a very well known breeder and that dog was TRAINED in GERMAN COMMANDS and in English.

He was a big Schutzhund German Shepherd and his name was REX something in German. My late husband spoke to him in GERMAN more than in English too.

I did not speak German and I only knew a FEW words like I love you, my darling or time to eat. LOL

So there you go.

Take care and have a nice Sunday afternoon.

Your friend in Montana - Cate

 

[Member 52301]

For those taking notes, the above exchange is what it looks like when two adults disagree and respectfully exchange ideas. Neither one will likely change position today, but they have shared different points of view - one of the reasons we are here.

I am preaching to myself here, too. I am often more confrontational than needed.

Thank you!

DISCLAIMER:

RV Tech is an old gun friend to me from other forums.

I have not known him as long as MTN PILOT but for a fair amount of time online and on the tellie.

Some old GUN guys I knew/know in person, shot with them, visited with them with my late husband or with my MT husband too. A bunch of them are DEAD now too.

RVT and I have spoken to each other on the telephone AND in email and in messages.

I RESPECT him, LIKE him as an individual, as a GUN man who is smart in guns, as a lover of LIBERTY and this sovereign nation, and we have several common interests.

We do LIKE many of the same types of guns.

Both of us enjoy the outdoors, reading, and learning new things too.

We like some of the same subject matters, books, music, films, etc. but that does not mean that we HAVE all of the same EXACT interests!

He is into RELOADING as my MT husband is too. I do not reload.

Anyway, he is a kind, nice, opinionated gentleman as I AM as an opinionated lady, he has always been RESPECTFUL to me as I TRY TO BE TO HIM and to other people!

Both of us can cuss sometimes, think of the same funny thing and laugh together too.

So there you go. Plus he was in the military too. And he knows how much I RESPECT THAT from my own personal history.

He is a good man and, "One to ride the river with!", as the OLD SAYING goes! LOL

My husband and I are OLDER than him but we think on the same wave length most of the time. Especially my husband since he thinks as RV thinks a lot too in specific matters AND in GUN STUFF.

Plus my MT husband grew up the same when it came to hunting as RVT did too.

I was into swimming, hiking, sail boats, power boats, camping, walking, museums, reading and FISHING. I have gone on some hunts but I do not personally hunt. I have NOTHING against hunting.

Take care.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

For those taking notes, the above exchange is what it looks like when two adults disagree and respectfully exchange ideas. Neither one will likely change position today, but they have shared different points of view - one of the reasons we are here.

I am preaching to myself here, too. I am often more confrontational than needed.

I can be that way sometimes even when I do NOT mean to be that way at all or I come across too strong too.

Plus I write long posts and some people hate that. I think that they should put me on ignore or just SKIM BY ME.

Hard core RKBA lady here first and foremost as some of you know.

Lots of people don't like that because I mention it often or a lot and self defense issues too.

I think that KNOWING many people from war torn countries and knowing history makes me TOO strong for some people's tastes too.

Plus things that happened in my own personal life.


RVT was right about one place too. BIG time! Another forum.

Cate

 

[MxOverkill]

Tazer!

Nope.
"Texas"

 

[WWShooter]

Different breeds of dogs will have different instinctive behaviors. I've had GSDs going on 20 years now. They are property and person protectors and don't wander (at least mine don't). A friend has a Decker Terrier - it is the most prey driven animal I've ever seen. Once it gets on a scent, it develops situational deafness. BUT, whatever the instinctive behavior, the owner needs to know his or her dog(s) and needs to be responsible for them (just like gun owners). I don't blame the dog any more than I blame a gun - but I do hold the owner responsible in each case.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

This is the kind of story that gives gun owners a bad name:

Texas Mother Accidentally Shot 5-Year-Old Son After Targeting and Missing a Neighbor’s Puppy: Police

Respectfully disagree. This is the kind of story that gives thugfolx w/ neck tattoos a bad name.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

A lot of information missing here.

People on bicycles.
Was the dog chasing them, or just running after them?
Had the people been chased by this dog before?

Criminal record of the neck-tatted shooter?

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I found the linked story to be pretty tame and neutral. Sometimes it really is just an idiot with a gun.

I found the linked story to be typically short on details about the accused.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

That woman should have never been carrying a firearm.

100%. I'd like to know if she was even legally able. I'm going to fully-own my bias here: neck tattoo generally a good sign that you're not a school librarian...

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Mother deserves to be charged,
If a man did this he's be charged.

She was charged. Now the real question is will she face real justice or woke SJW justice? If the latter, she's already home with her shot kid and her roscoe.

 

[RVTECH]

Now the real question is will she face real justice or woke SJW justice?

I'll bet the red mark from the 'slap on the wrist' is already gone....

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I'm bet the red mark from the 'slap on the wrist' is already gone....

Well, it is Houston. We shall see. Dummy should have committed her crime in Austin -- they'd give her a medal. And a cookie. And a Cadillac.