Taking home an upper off an SBR, waiting at the dealer for stamp approval?

[Max713]

I've got an Angstadt UDP-9 PDW currently sitting at my dealer, pending a form 4. Now, I'd like to take home the upper, for several reasons, but none really matter other than the fact that it is mine to do so with

The problem, is the dealer isn't completely sure about how the ATF see's this, although I'm certain that seeing as the serial numbered lower is the only "regulated" part of the firearm, that it should be no problem taking the upper home.

My dealer called the ATF to confirm, but as you can expect they are not answering their phone and definitely not returning messages.

My question for you guys, does anyone have any links or information otherwise that spells out my ability to take the upper home? Long shot, but I'd really like to play with the new toy!

Thanks guys.

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[JedB]

I'm inferring (I may be wrong) that you want to go shoot the upper while waiting for the lower to get stamp approved.

If it goes on a pistol lower, I don't see any issue and no laws would be broken.
Putting it on a rifle lower is not a decision I would make nor follow through on. Again, that's just me.

If you go shoot on BLM land or in the forest, etc, no one would probably know.

For me, risk > reward and I have the rest of my life to go shoot it once approved.

Free opinion, value as such.
Or maybe $0.02

 

[IronMonster]

I know Rainier arms will not let you take parts off of or change a SBR that is pending. I had them build me one with an upper I supplied to them (off a pistol), not even a part I bought from them, and it was in jail until my paperwork came back.

Just because that's the way they do it does not mean its "law" for sure but its at least another shop that refuses to let SBR parts loose pending approval

 

[TapRackNGo]

Look up "Constructive Intent" and "Constructive Possession"

 

[Max713]

Look up "Constructive Intent" and "Constructive Possession"

Your assumption that I am ignorant of the laws of intent is humerus

Not my first SBR, or SBS for that matter. I'm well aware, and I have several lowers the upper can go on for the time being.

 

[Max713]

I know Rainier arms will not let you take parts off of or change a SBR that is pending. I had them build me one with an upper I supplied to them (off a pistol), not even a part I bought from them, and it was in jail until my paperwork came back.

Just because that's the way they do it does not mean its "law" for sure but its at least another shop that refuses to let SBR parts loose pending approval

That would be frustrating!
I see my dealer going in the direction of "I'm not sure, so I'm just going to hold onto the whole thing...", thinking the likelihood of the ATF responding to a phone call is little to none.

 

[wired]

Technically your dealers thoughts are well founded. A SBR is only an SBR in its complete form.

 

[Garg]

an upper is an upper. If you already have a legal SBR lower, just slap it on that. No law I have ever heard of that you can only have one upper per lower. I may be wrong.
You could also just buy a pistol tube, and install that on a lower, and call it a day.

Edit, and why you would surrender an upper to a dealer, is beyond me.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

Your assumption that I am ignorant of the laws of intent is humerus
.

I have found from past experience that the spell check is important when being snarky.

 

[Max713]

I have found from past experience that the spell check is important when being snarky.

For the sake of snarky-ness I did spell everything correctly, although I don't think the reference to human anatomy makes much sense in that sentence.

X-Ray tech by day, find myself writing "humerus" much more often than "humorous".

 

[Max713]

an upper is an upper. If you already have a legal SBR lower, just slap it on that. No law I have ever heard of that you can only have one upper per lower. I may be wrong.
You could also just buy a pistol tube, and install that on a lower, and call it a day.

Edit, and why you would surrender an upper to a dealer, is beyond me.

I agree. BUT... low and behold my dealer did get a response from the ATF:

Hi Max,

I got in touch with one of the Field Agents out of the Portland ATF office and asked about separating the upper and transferring it ahead of the Form 4 approval.

The short answer is No, I can't.

Here's the explanation I was given.... The ATF shows me in possession of a 9mm SBR (from the Form 3), if I transfer the upper receiver to you and happen to get inspected by the ATF, I'll only have a lower receiver to reconcile with a Form 3 that says SBR. - The ATF would consider that a violation that could jeopardize my license.

So, while the upper receiver is not a serialized part and in an of itself not a controlled item, as far as the ATF is concerned, the upper/lower is a single entity and can not be split up and transferred separately.

I know that's not the answer you were hoping for, but it's the one that keeps us both out of trouble.

Mike

Looks like I'll be waiting for the whole thing. Oh well.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he would have got a different answer from another ATF employee.

 

[wired]

An SBR is a whole gun and not just a lower. Your dealer made the right call.

 

[Garg]

I agree. BUT... low and behold my dealer did get a response from the ATF:


Looks like I'll be waiting for the whole thing. Oh well.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he would have got a different answer from another ATF employee.

I totally misunderstood what was happening. Didn't read it carefully enough. My bad. Yes I think Mike is correct, and even if he wasn't I would still error on the side of caution, dealing with any alphabet agencies.