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Stop the In-fighting!

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Video would have been a zillion times better if Colion had played all the parts, a-la The Nutty Professor (Eddie Murphy).

Outside of that, there's a thread on here about Virginia where my point is in the minority: namely, that the AR slingin' attendees should be leaving them at home anyway.

Then there's another thread on here about a meeting in Washington where many on this board are asking others to please leave the rifles at home.

I cannot repeat this enough: who was more successful during the civil rights 60's - the black panthers or MLK and crew? How's BLM faring these days after having a violent streak?

Our mission, should you choose to effing accept it, is to grow the gun community! It's not to be obstinate in front of politicians. It's not to show off the size of your big brass balls. It's not to parade down the streets with your "come get some" attitude.

We, the gun owning crowd and 2A supporters, are a minority! So start thinking like one.

The only way 2A survives long term is to grow the gun community, else you'll see a challenge to it non unlike prohibition within your lifetime.

How do you grow the gun community? I can tell you this, the answer is not going to a rally suited up for WW3; not going with a rifle at all. You need to convince your suburban mom whose more likely to join Mom's Demand Action by default that your perspective is not that bat-sh!t crazy one.

I'm getting sick of saying this. We have a marketing/PR problem.

Can we at least get on the same page about the point of rallies and protests and assemblies?
I agree 100% hueco. What purpose is served by open carrying rifles there? Just to say “we can do it so we’re going to”? I don’t see how that does anything to further the cause, if anything only harm it. What we need is many more people to understand why the 2A is so important.

My guess is most gun rights fence sitters are there because their understanding of the importance is lacking, plus feelings of relative safety. Plus normalcy bias. Plus a general lack of understanding of what liberty is at all as well as its implications (we have a ton of cognitive dissonance going on). Plus people are busy with their own stuff and most don’t spend much time in theoretical thought. “Sure dictators have killed millions in the past, but nobody would do that now in our ”enlightened” society here in America”. I bet a full 90% of the population (yes including gun owners) have that feeling in them. So the need of the 2A to oppose tyrannical government? I don’t think that thought even computes with most people. So, does open carrying do anything at all to solve any of this?

Negatively, the msm absolutely loves to make us seem fringe and radical. What would look more radical to those that don’t get it than thousands of yelling, hyped up people with guns (and oh my goodness any tactical dress)? That’s not how people are gonna get used to guns, it will only cause them to feel more separate from us. Rather than rifles maybe everyone there should just write out big signs with some basic personal info on it, like occupation, where they might have gone to college, number of children, life goals/dreams, whatever. That might actually pique people’s interest a bit more and get them thinking. Plus, maybe extreme, but what if one person opened fire? False flag? I don’t even want to think about what a disaster that would be.

If the people show up, the rally will serve whatever purpose it will. I don’t see how carrying rifles adds anything productive in this situation. Basically like missing the forest for the trees.

And oh yeah, however fun it may be , how many people actually change their minds by seeing the bare-breasted women protestors?
 

arakboss

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"Show the world that suit and tie businessman own guns, plumbers, mechanics, day laborers, home-makers, etc. all own and support 2A. Show them that, though we may be a minority overall, they type of person we are is massive...we are everyone."

I agree with this part.


Rallies are great but the magic happens at the polls. If we keep voting in gun grabbers and gun grabbing ballot measures, all the rallies in the world won't save us. (We should have them if well attended)

How are fence sitters swayed to vote for these politicians and ballot measures?Legislator influence, MSM attention, Editorial write-ups, Interest groups, Corporate support, TV ads, radio spots, yard signs, mailers, clergy recommendations, etc?
Who knows but our side is rarely represented well in these areas.

We can sit around and blame Bloomberg's money and that may very well be a major component of the antis support or do something else. We evidently don't have a Bloomberg type on our side so we will have to find another way. We have weeks to months to change minds not years or decades. Or we can just say efff it, we have the 2A and that is all we need. When Johnny Law shows up, hand him a copy of the 2A, while you say here's my get out of jail free card so step off.

I would like to think that there are greater problems we could be focusing on but since the gun grabbers are making it an issue we have little choice but to respond.
I forgot to add "Entertainers" and mass murderers (who use firearms to commit mass murder) to the list of those who sway public opinion towards gun grabbing.

 

arakboss

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I agree 100% hueco. What purpose is served by open carrying rifles there? Just to say “we can do it so we’re going to”? I don’t see how that does anything to further the cause, if anything only harm it. What we need is many more people to understand why the 2A is so important.

My guess is most gun rights fence sitters are there because their understanding of the importance is lacking, plus feelings of relative safety. Plus normalcy bias. Plus a general lack of understanding of what liberty is at all as well as its implications (we have a ton of cognitive dissonance going on). Plus people are busy with their own stuff and most don’t spend much time in theoretical thought. “Sure dictators have killed millions in the past, but nobody would do that now in our ”enlightened” society here in America”. I bet a full 90% of the population (yes including gun owners) have that feeling in them. So the need of the 2A to oppose tyrannical government? I don’t think that thought even computes with most people. So, does open carrying do anything at all to solve any of this?

Negatively, the msm absolutely loves to make us seem fringe and radical. What would look more radical to those that don’t get it than thousands of yelling, hyped up people with guns (and oh my goodness any tactical dress)? That’s not how people are gonna get used to guns, it will only cause them to feel more separate from us. Rather than rifles maybe everyone there should just write out big signs with some basic personal info on it, like occupation, where they might have gone to college, number of children, life goals/dreams, whatever. That might actually pique people’s interest a bit more and get them thinking. Plus, maybe extreme, but what if one person opened fire? False flag? I don’t even want to think about what a disaster that would be.

If the people show up, the rally will serve whatever purpose it will. I don’t see how carrying rifles adds anything productive in this situation. Basically like missing the forest for the trees.

And oh yeah, however fun it may be , how many people actually change their minds by seeing the bare-breasted women protestors?
It sounds like you may not be in favor of open carry of rifles in public in general. That would make your position much easier to understand. But if you feel that open carry of rifles is acceptable elsewhere in a public setting then it is difficult for me understand why it would not be appropriate it at a rally that is focused on protecting those said rifles and the right to open carry them. Oregon is an open carry State for now (for the most part) but they will be coming after that soon, starting with a break up of preemption laws.
 
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Eric Holder said:
"We have to brain wash the public into thinking about guns in a different way"

Well it worked, now the mundanes are afraid of just looking at one.
 

arakboss

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I agree 100% hueco. What purpose is served by open carrying rifles there? Just to say “we can do it so we’re going to”? I don’t see how that does anything to further the cause, if anything only harm it. What we need is many more people to understand why the 2A is so important.

My guess is most gun rights fence sitters are there because their understanding of the importance is lacking, plus feelings of relative safety. Plus normalcy bias. Plus a general lack of understanding of what liberty is at all as well as its implications (we have a ton of cognitive dissonance going on). Plus people are busy with their own stuff and most don’t spend much time in theoretical thought. “Sure dictators have killed millions in the past, but nobody would do that now in our ”enlightened” society here in America”. I bet a full 90% of the population (yes including gun owners) have that feeling in them. So the need of the 2A to oppose tyrannical government? I don’t think that thought even computes with most people. So, does open carrying do anything at all to solve any of this?

Negatively, the msm absolutely loves to make us seem fringe and radical. What would look more radical to those that don’t get it than thousands of yelling, hyped up people with guns (and oh my goodness any tactical dress)? That’s not how people are gonna get used to guns, it will only cause them to feel more separate from us. Rather than rifles maybe everyone there should just write out big signs with some basic personal info on it, like occupation, where they might have gone to college, number of children, life goals/dreams, whatever. That might actually pique people’s interest a bit more and get them thinking. Plus, maybe extreme, but what if one person opened fire? False flag? I don’t even want to think about what a disaster that would be.

If the people show up, the rally will serve whatever purpose it will. I don’t see how carrying rifles adds anything productive in this situation. Basically like missing the forest for the trees.

And oh yeah, however fun it may be , how many people actually change their minds by seeing the bare-breasted women protestors?
I support the idea of signs with personal info. "I am a father" blah blah blah and then at the end of the sign "I am a 2A supporter" or something of that nature. Good idea!
 

nwslopoke

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Again, the people or groups we put our faith in are silent. Other politicians of all ilk are also sitting back and watching. Unfortunately as I always say, we have no Oprah, Hollywood or sugar daddy to bail us out, pay authorities to look the other way or lend their namss.

A friend recently went on a tirade describing himself as a subject of the government. This is what we are against. Well educated, well behaved subjects to the state.

It's too late but I'd rather see the rally relocated at the last minute to another venue. Hopefully thousands of people armed anywhere us better than the same number of unarned people where they are allowed to be.
 
Virginia is being run by tyrants. Period. The founding fathers left the keys to the kingdom in the People’s hands. The people of Virginia have surrendered this keys to their tyrannical government, so very sad to see...

We the People have the Right to Keep and bear Arms, as defined in the Second Amendment. Last I seen, there wasn’t a limitation on Where or When that Right could be exercised... Its sad that previous generations have surrendered so much to the governments and empowered their governments to rule over them that now situations such as Virginia are possible.

Me thinks, those wise guys from 244 years ago must be rolling over in their graves with what has happened to their beloved Virginia...

very sad indeed, but coming to a state near you this legislative season, if this cancer is not stopped in its tracks.
 
OP
Roymil666

Roymil666

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I'm all for having rallies and if people want to open carry then why not. As long as we are setting a "GOOD" example for our 2A community as a whole then it can't hurt.
My greater concern is that we are growing gun-owners of tomorrow but the politicians of today will take away those rights before our future generations can enjoy them.
 

Andy54Hawken

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  • Army
  • Law Around Here
We as gun owners need to our own best ambassadors.

Like it or not , when in the public eye , doing anything with firearms your :
Behavior...
Attitude ( both actual and perceived ) ...
Actions...
Words...
Dress..
Will be the standards by which all gun owners will be judged by.
Also needing to be understood is that for many folks , guns and gun owners are scary.
Gun owners need to build a better "fan base" ...and a far better public image.

Unfortunately , there is a strong media stereotype that gets fed with each :
Crime that has a firearm...
Accident with a firearm...
Negligent discharge or other negligent action with a firearm...
Subjective : Over the top memes , social media posts , Tee-shirt slogans and bumper stickers , etc...
And also subjective...The appearance of a gun owner when out and about , doing something with a firearm.

This combined with the in-fighting and Us against Them attitude that many gun owners have for other gun owners...Or the: I'm a better gun owner than you attitude because of _________
( insert whatever reason in here...I've heard a lot of them over the years...:oops: )
As well as a lack of voting or firearm regulation awareness...

All serve to shoot us in the foot , when interacting with the non gun-owning public.
Andy
 

MechaNik

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To quote the tactical persona, "you're useless, you're useless, you're useless...."

What's wrong with having a little bit of all 4?

At work, people can't even agree on a brand or caliber, much less anything more complicated or important than that. Heck, once in a while I find someone who has (still) no idea background checks are mandatory in Oregon or any of the recent craziness washingtonians THEMSELVES voted for. It's insane to think we can really unite when most are either apathetic or oblivious.

Just let them listen to as much Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones as they can yell at the radio and nod their heads over and you can do anything you like to them. Just don't do anything to their retirements
 

arakboss

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To quote the tactical persona, "you're useless, you're useless, you're useless...."

What's wrong with having a little bit of all 4?

At work, people can't even agree on a brand or caliber, much less anything more complicated or important than that. Heck, once in a while I find someone who has (still) no idea background checks are mandatory in Oregon or any of the recent craziness washingtonians THEMSELVES voted for. It's insane to think we can really unite when most are either apathetic or oblivious.

Just let them listen to as much Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones as they can yell at the radio and nod their heads over and you can do anything you like to them. Just don't do anything to their retirements
What's wrong with having a little bit of all 4?

Exactly, we need all of the above to represent.
 
So much could be said, but it would all be a waste of time. I think those at both ends of the spectrum deserve what they are going to get... of course those of us in the middle (who are usually ignored, shot down or drowned out) will end up having to live with what you deserve as well, but that is life.

Mike
 

arakboss

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So much could be said, but it would all be a waste of time. I think those at both ends of the spectrum deserve what they are going to get... of course those of us in the middle (who are usually ignored, shot down or drowned out) will end up having to live with what you deserve as well, but that is life.

Mike
"Waste of time"? That sounds depressing.
 
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Virginia is being run by tyrants. Period. The founding fathers left the keys to the kingdom in the People’s hands. The people of Virginia have surrendered this keys to their tyrannical government, so very sad to see...
It ain't over till SCOTUS rules.
 
OP
Roymil666

Roymil666

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So much could be said, but it would all be a waste of time. I think those at both ends of the spectrum deserve what they are going to get... of course those of us in the middle (who are usually ignored, shot down or drowned out) will end up having to live with what you deserve as well, but that is life.

Mike
That's quite a sad thought. And frankly it's people with that mentality that will let our rights go to the wayside. Just because others hurt the cause doesn't mean you should stop fighting to preserve our rights. We cannot just let it be the way "life" is and accept it.


And I personally believe that we could be more effective with our side's rallies if we could use a more symbolic approach as do the libs. Their tactics sound ridiculous but people are talking about them; some of those that hear about it in-turn are swayed. So what can we do that is symbolic but won't hurt our efforts. The standing in BDUs, holding rifles and waving flags doesn't seem to be enough to garner support from the masses.
 

arakboss

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That's quite a sad thought. And frankly it's people with that mentality that will let our rights go to the wayside. Just because others hurt the cause doesn't mean you should stop fighting to preserve our rights. We cannot just let it be the way "life" is and accept it.


And I personally believe that we could be more effective with our side's rallies if we could use a more symbolic approach as do the libs. Their tactics sound ridiculous but people are talking about them; some of those that hear about it in-turn are swayed. So what can we do that is symbolic but won't hurt our efforts. The standing in BDUs, holding rifles and waving flags doesn't seem to be enough to garner support from the masses.
Our best chance is diversity. The Defend the 2nd Rally (thank you Radian) had a more diverse group than I usually see in photos of gun rallies. Lots of couples, families, dogs, young, old, etc. And yes even some AR toting open carry folks. It was a fantastic event and well attended crowd size wise. We need this diversity to expand and come in to the fold when it comes to swaying the masses toward our side. If this diversity of 2A supporters showed up in large numbers to town halls, legislative offices, committee hearings, etc, it could really help our cause. Our young people who support the 2A really need to step up. They appear to be few in numbers but their rights are the first to go on the chopping block.
 

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