SNOWPOCALYPSE!!!

[etrain16]

SO, I just gotta ask, What the heck is up with the MAX light rail?!?!?!?! I was talking with my Brother who lives up in Beaverton area, and he says it took him darn near 5 hours to get from the gate way area to the Beaverton transit center, and another 1 1/2 hour from there to home!!!!! When I was stationed in Europe, all the trains ran just fine when there was snow and ice, and many places were far worse then PDX! WTF is up with all that, I see PDX spending bizzilians on more useless MAX construction, and yet they cannot seem to ever get the darn thing run! Even in summer, the darn thing is always breaking down, and winter just makes every thing worse! How long has PDX had that dumbazz light rail now???? and you would think they would have learned by now how to make it work!

OFF RANT, Back to abynormal

Here is one of my favorite MAX stories, from October 2015 - the train actually flooding:

 

[etrain16]

It's one of many factors that makes it harder to drive in snowy conditions her than in snow country. Because snow/ice doesn't happen as often ODOT can't justify the amount of vehicles and staff as if it were an all winter issue. Here are a few other factors:

• Use of environmentally friendly de-icers that aren't worth a crap due to local politics. The first night of the snow storm the de-icers used in my area actually made it worse by first melting the snow, then as it lost effectiveness gave a nice glassy slick surface.
• Just like it's hard for ODOT to cost justify a huge fleet of trucks and drivers for a once or twice a year event, most drivers find it hard to lay out an extra $600 to $800 for snow tires.
• People in large metro areas tend to be less self reliant and more dependent on the available resources. When those resources get overwhelmed they don't have the personal resources to make up for it.
  
• Elevation differences - the city I live in has over 500 feet of elevation from the lowest to the highest spot, and that's not uncommon in this area. Outside of ski areas, every place I lived in snow country was pretty level compared to here and far less challenging.
  
• The normal pattern is for snow to melt for a few hours each day then refreeze during the evening rush hour. In snow country the snow stays frozen and compacts into an icy mass that actually gets a "tooth" on it so doesn't get icy slick.
• I lived and drove in snow country for seven years, and the pattern was always the same: First snowfall was a mess that resulted in every crap car riding on bald tires either getting totalled or in the repair shop for the next six weeks. The roads were cleared pretty quickly (unlike here), and since everyone drove on ice for at least two to three months they had snow tires and chains. Six weeks after the first snow, all the crappy drivers got their cars back from the shop and it got a bit harder to get around again.

What I'm getting at is that is that we aren't as bad as driving in snow as the rest of the country thinks. Anybody who want to laugh at us can take my old commute of descending 500' on slick ice to cover a bridge at near seal level, also slick, then going over another 350' hill and eventually arrive at my former office again at 500'. I can tell you that even with the right gear it was dicey, and I was very surprised at how easy it was to drive the same vehicle and snow tires in snow country.

It is amazing the difference between upper Oregon City and lower Oregon City during events like this - it's almost night and day different in terms of conditions over just a couple of miles.


On another note to everyone else reading this, now imagine the Cascadia Quake were to hit the Portland Metro/Vancouver area, say at 8.5+ on the scale. Imagine now it's not just impassible roads due to snow/ice and stalled cars, but now bridges and overpasses are completely out of commission. Imagine you're 5, 10, 20+ miles from home. Now imagine that quake happens on a day just like Wednesday, with snow and ice falling, temperatures below freezing. How many here, and I have to ask myself the same question, are prepared to abandon our cars where we are, throw on a pack and make the hike home, in the snow/ice, crossing rivers, climbing hills, etc. Imagine how many magnitudes worse the area would be - emergency services would be virtually non-existent, likely for days, to most people. ODOT won't be able to save you. Police and fire won't be able to save you. And since a Cascadia event could stretch from northern CA to Vancouver B.C., resources that can come from other parts of the country will be spread thinner than any such event in our country's history.

Yeah, if you want to get a taste of SHTF, just look at the Portland metro area during a snow/ice event, then imagine it lasts for days, weeks, months. Certainly makes me reconsider how I outfit my vehicles for any kind of disaster event - and I have to consider that such a quake won't necessarily wait for a nice gentle spring day.

 

[3MTA3]

It is amazing the difference between upper Oregon City and lower Oregon City during events like this - it's almost night and day different in terms of conditions over just a couple of miles.


On another note to everyone else reading this, now imagine the Cascadia Quake were to hit the Portland Metro/Vancouver area, say at 8.5+ on the scale. Imagine now it's not just impassible roads due to snow/ice and stalled cars, but now bridges and overpasses are completely out of commission. Imagine you're 5, 10, 20+ miles from home. Now imagine that quake happens on a day just like Wednesday, with snow and ice falling, temperatures below freezing. How many here, and I have to ask myself the same question, are prepared to abandon our cars where we are, throw on a pack and make the hike home, in the snow/ice, crossing rivers, climbing hills, etc. Imagine how many magnitudes worse the area would be - emergency services would be virtually non-existent, likely for days, to most people. ODOT won't be able to save you. Police and fire won't be able to save you. And since a Cascadia event could stretch from northern CA to Vancouver B.C., resources that can come from other parts of the country will be spread thinner than any such event in our country's history.

Yeah, if you want to get a taste of SHTF, just look at the Portland metro area during a snow/ice event, then imagine it lasts for days, weeks, months. Certainly makes me reconsider how I outfit my vehicles for any kind of disaster event - and I have to consider that such a quake won't necessarily wait for a nice gentle spring day.

That's a pretty sobering thought and one we should pay attention to. Keep in mind that grocery stores only stock 3 days worth of food, and most people keep 3 days worth of food at home. About 10 days after a major earthquake, even if nobody were to get hurt, things will start to get real ugly.

 

[etrain16]

That's a pretty sobering thought and one we should pay attention to. Keep in mind that grocery stores only stock 3 days worth of food, and most people keep 3 days worth of food at home. About 10 days after a major earthquake, even if nobody were to get hurt, things will start to get real ugly.

I know I'm somewhat prepared, but no where near as prepared as I need to be. Thinking of it during this snow/ice event has made me realize I've still got work to do.

 

[Certaindeaf]

WAYNO
Run by democrats!?!?!?!?

Sheldon

Yep.. and they'll run them max trains through 4' of standing water and wonder why they just broke a 10 million dollar machine.

 

[3MTA3]

I know I'm somewhat prepared, but no where near as prepared as I need to be. Thinking of it during this snow/ice event has made me realize I've still got work to do.

My weaknesses right now are vehicles (unusual for me) and first aid supplies. I have even laid back at least six months worth of prescriptions - my health care provider didn't track how often I bough them, so I bought ahead and now rotate using the oldest first and buying at a normal pace. Also, vitamins, electrolytes, pain relievers, etc.. (love you, Costco).

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I'm convinced that, only about one of one hundred people that buy 4X4 and AWD vehicles understands that they don't stop a bit better than any other car. They seem to think that the braking systems on 4X4's are superior, and that they stop as good as they go. Hence, they drive like idiots, convinced that technology will keep them safe!

 

[bsa1917hunter]

This is actually turning into a good thread. I've laughed and I've cried with some of your stories... But damn, I need to get back to work and earning a living.... This being home stuff is for the birds... Hopefully Monday will be looking better. I only have to work 4 days next week and then on to the 11 day paid break!!!!!. What really sucks is I've been doing all the work I was supposed to do on my time off next weekend. Got my cabinets painted in the garage and about ready to head over to home depot again to make a new work table for the shop....

 

[3MTA3]

I'm convinced that, only, about one of one hundred people that buy 4X4 and AWD vehicles understands that they don't stop a bit better than any other car. They seem to think that the braking systems on 4X4's are superior, and that they stop as good as they go. Hence, they drive like idiots, convinced that technology will keep them safe!

And make sure you go for that big @$$ lift kit that raises you center of gravity so you flip real good on that sideways slide.

Stopping is indeed the name of the game, and that's why I always get studded snow tires and carry chains. All AWD/4x4 will really do for you is to help prevent fishtailing when starting out uphill and a bit more stability during a turn.

 

[Medic!]

And make sure you go for that big @$$ lift kit that raises you center of gravity so you flip real good on that sideways slide.

Stopping is indeed the name of the game, and that's why I always get studded snow tires and carry chains. All AWD/4x4 will really do for you is to help prevent fishtailing when starting out uphill and a bit more stability during a turn.

All wheel drive can give you twice the traction. And that is a game changer!
The problem is you need to be looking for and using any and all available traction.

Put your two right tires in the snow on the shoulder of the road. Look for a small strand of gravel not whisked away buy other drivers. And drive on that. Or even a strip of crusty frozen slush.

People with two wheel drive that know how to drive on ice and snow. Will do better than somebody with AWD/4wd that doesn't.

It's Chess people. Not checkers.

 

[mjbskwim]

6 more inches for the last 25hrs

 

[Mikej]

"THEY" are still driving 18 MPH on WET roads! I presume because there is snow and some ice on the sides and in the center turn lane.

 

[308]

"THEY" are still driving 18 MPH on WET roads! I presume because there is snow and some ice on the sides and in the center turn lane.

I know...I just drove home from Milwaukie. I didn't know wet and dry roads means 25 under because it snowed two days ago.

 

[BDA.45]

Ok now I'll respond.

I've only read the last page here so I have no idea about the other 13. I'm very tired and burnt out. We've been working 12 -16 hr shifts the last couple weeks. I work for a government agency on the west side of Portland. Not ODOT but we use their materials when we need them.

I can tell you a couple of people have nailed it right on the head. Elevation change sucks. We don't live in a flat area so get some damn chains and put em in your trunk. Learn how to use em. And slow the F down... If cars are piled up everywhere I can't do my job. Barnes rd for example... We had some dude screaming at us to do something but WTF am I supposed to do when cars are crashed everywhere and it's gridlock? If you can't go anywhere neither can I. Guess what, his was 1 of the crashed cars. I asked if he had chains.....I'll let you figure out what his answer was...Idiot...MY personal rig is a 4x4 and I carry 2 sets of chains.

Some of the ODOT guys think we're crazy for sanding and plowing some of the roads we do. I can name a few dozen roads where if you were riding with me there'd be nothing left of the passenger seat cause your a-hole consumed it....On those roads, I couldn't really care any less about you, I'm just trying to make sure I don't die.

I really don't know what I'm saying right now cause I got off an hour ago after starting at 3 this am. I'm gonna go to sleep cause I'm extremely irritable right now. I'll re-read, edit and post later

 

[Brutus57]

I almost slipped getting in to the hot tub yesterday.... there was a slight breeze and it was misty out....

Brutus Out

In the Great State of Jefferson.

 

[SA Shooter]

I'm convinced that, only about one of one hundred people that buy 4X4 and AWD vehicles understands that they don't stop a bit better than any other car. They seem to think that the braking systems on 4X4's are superior, and that they stop as good as they go. Hence, they drive like idiots, convinced that technology will keep them safe!

Only the smart ones realize that they actually go better than they stop in those conditions. You may not get stuck but if you think you'll stop sooner, boy do you have surprise in store for you!

 

[308]

I almost slipped getting in to the hot tub yesterday.... there was a slight breeze and it was misty out....

Brutus Out

In the Great State of Jefferson.

Be careful out there Mister...don't want you to break your hip or something

 

[Member 34319]

To all those taking about all wheel drive and these conditions, this was my daily driver when I lived in Nevada where it snowed more than 2" and I was expected to make it in to work which was 20 miles from my house. @Medic! seems to get it!

Really I get it, this weather only happens on a fluke of an occasion, but it sure it's funny to see those that have no freaking clue drive in it. Much less the city have zero infrastructure to handle it.

 

[jbett98]

My wife was raised in sunny California and every time I tackle an icy hill with my little Dodge Neon (front studded tires only) she has one hand on the door release handle ready to bail on me.
I just laugh at her and power on up the hills.
The way I like to drive in snow and ice is to use the parking brake to slow down and let the front wheels do the steering, not all locked up like most folks.

I tell people to buy a couple of roofing shingle bundles and place them in the trunk.
They weigh a lot for their size, come wrapped in plastic and you return them to Home Depot/Lowes after the snows gone and get your money back.
Way better then bags of sand that always manage to split open somehow.

 

[WAYNO]

Yes!!! If the rust belt states didn't salt the roads they would have this same problem too. Putting a thin layer of salt down once or twice every few years wouldnt hurt anything, but good luck convincing anybody in portland of that. Beet juice would be even better.

Face it, people will never really be prepared. So, you have two options to make this problem better: less people (yes please!), or removing the snow (salt). Or we could just keep repeating this every time it snows.

Please Lord, no SALT!

We have successfully resisted salt in Oregon, but looks as if the folks that would rather have the government take care of them instead of taking care of themselves have won. ODOT announced today they are now using salt, and Portland-DOT has said they will follow suit.



If ya don't like your car, or ya don't like my car, you will now get your way. Yuck.

WAYNO.