SNOWPOCALYPSE!!!

[Mikej]

The engine weight sitting on front wheel drive cars is the difference. That's why people put sand bags in the trunk of Rwd cars and beds of Rwd pickups.

Yes I understand that idea. But do the people that drive them have the brain to use them like that? A touch of the throttle and a spin of the front (steering) wheels? Still leave you with no control. Going down hill under compression with front wheel drive in ice condition can leave you with no steering. I should admit, I've only driven a front drive only car once on slippery roads. I hated it!

This plus the fact that you can direct the driving wheels.

Yeah, that worked real well this week?

Remember the original Volkswagen Beetles? Those guys would go in the snow!

Hey, aren't there a bunch of front drive cars coming out more lately? Maybe that's just the "Performance Low to the Ground" type cars?

 

[The Heretic]

I decided to telecommute today. No use spending 3 hours getting to work, then 3 or more getting back home.

I have no problems getting around with my rig.

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The only thing that really slows me down are the other motorists.

If that was your Prius I climbed over last night I apologize for the dents...

I saw more than one 4x4 rig in the ditch or stuck sideways.

AWD and 4x4/et.al. doesn't help you stop any better, only go better, and only then if you don't get over-confident.

I was out 4-wheeling once in a 4x4 I built and I got stuck sideways in some small ruts (less than 5" deep) - front tires in one rut, rear in another. It was Xmas break (I was in college) and the ground was frozen with ice on top - it was slick as snot. I broke a front axle (it was welded to get the inner spline I wanted with open knuckle outers) and then I was stuck.

Along came a friend with an F350 and he couldn't just pull me out either - it was downhill to boot. We were both pretty disgusted that our mighty 4x4s were stuck on a bit of icy ground. Eventually he snatched me out.

Neither of us had locking diffs of any kind.

I like my AWD car for this kind of road driving (I would never take it off-road). Between the AWD and the traction control and the ABS/etc., it does very well on icy surfaces if I am careful and try to not hotdog it and I pay attention.

I've been driving for 45+ years - everything from tractors (including crawlers) to buses and class 6 trucks and hauling trailers with large boats on them.

I have driven in Alaska, Montana/Idaho/Oregon/Washington/Wyoming winter weather on snow and sheet ice - in the mountains and on the east sides of WA and OR with both 2WD and AWD/4WD.

I know it is all too easy to get stuck with any kind of machine.

Don't think that a 4x4 can't wind up in the ditch or be unable to get up an icy hill without chains or studs. Getting down the other side without going in the ditch can be even trickier.

A person can't be too timid - going too slow can put you in the ditch too - but they have to take it relatively easy at the same time - you can't just drive along like the road is bare and dry.

 

[nammac]

Two issues here, neither has anything to do with salt...

Personally responsibility, as has been stated by many above... Be prepared...

Seriously overestimating ones driving ability in snow and ice... I see people struggle driving in the rain and texting, can't fathom how thy handle the snow and ice...

Native New Englander, so the last few days have been... Entertaining...

 

[The Heretic]

How many here, and I have to ask myself the same question, are prepared to abandon our cars where we are, throw on a pack and make the hike home, in the snow/ice, crossing rivers, climbing hills, etc.

Level 1 with FD food, FAK, GHB, shelter and some other items:



Level 2:



Underneath level 2 is another level with a few more items (tighter on level 3 because that is where the battery and electronics are).

If I knew my kids were home and safe, and my office building had not collapsed (it used to be a nine story warehouse - it has concrete 4' thick columns every 20 feet), if I could, I would stay in the office until the weather turned as I have enough food and water there to last a week, then I would walk home. I work at the foot of the west hills in PDX, so I would need to go over them.

But yes, a severe earthquake is the most severe SHTF event I think is likely for this area. We would mostly be on our own for the better part of a year IMO.

 

[The Heretic]

WD40 sprayed liberally in the wheel wells really helps.

Back east I'd give the wheel wells a spray about once a week or if no storms every other week/monthly.

I buy WD40 by the gallon and use a hand spray bottle, like a windex type bottle. About half to 3/4 of the spray bottle for all 4 wheel wells. Just a few minutes is all, for all 4 combined.

WD40 is also super handy if you enjoy detailing your vehicles, especially for the wheel wells & engine compartments.

There is always the backup:

 

[The Heretic]

Although not related to road salt, boat trailers that are used on the coast have a very short life. Dunked in salt water, no chance of rinsing all the salt out, and eventually the trailer will fail.

Salt is another issue where polarization occurs between generations. Old folks like me hate it. Young folks of the disposable generation, love it.

WAYNO.

Yeah - in the USCG we always knew when equipment came from either salt or fresh water. Even stainless steel rusts - eventually - it just looks different (long term SS rust looks like a worm ate the steel, short term just looks like a stain, but is hard to remove).

Salt in the rivers and creeks and ditches, and on plants, causes harms too to the environment, not just machinery (and the roads).

As someone else pointed out in a nicely detailed post - these kinds of "storms" (hah!) don't happen very often on this side of the Cascades, and even if we used salt it probably wouldn't help as most people are just helpless and incompetent in general. I chose to go home when it first start snowing before it became a real mess, when the snow was barely a trace on the ground, and people were still driving like it was black ice when there was very little if any slickness.

The problem isn't the snow - it is the people. Throwing salt at the snow won't help that problem.

 

[The Heretic]

But yes, a severe earthquake is the most severe SHTF event I think is likely for this area. We would mostly be on our own for the better part of a year IMO.

That said - I spend 70% of my time at home (118 out of 168 hours per week), more when snow like this hits, so the chance that an earthquake would hit when I am not home is not as likely as it would hit when I am home.

As long as my house does not slide off the concrete pad it is on (it is a manufactured home on a steel frame on a concrete pad), I will probably be okay at home - I am mostly worried about my kids who live about 10 miles away.

 

[SA Shooter]

There is no replacement for experience when dealing with this stuff.

Going isn't a problem, stopping is. And when it turns to ice I am not one of those delusional or ill-prepared motorists. I have my gear, I have supplies and if it gets that bad I'm just not gonna venture out cause ya can't drive on ice.

I'm one of those twisted fellas who laughs at the misguided antics of others who know not what they do.

 

[Sstrand]

SA Shooter
Living in Eastern Oregon I snicker at the unfortunate souls who find it necessary to live in or near the cesspool known as Portland.
Even those of you like us here who are prepared are at the mercy of those who are not. The difference is there are not so many on this side of the state.
It's comforting knowing that when the "big one" hits very few of them will be get to my area because they will be snared in gigantic traffic jams. Good luck and best wishes to you when it hits.

Sheldon

 

[SA Shooter]

Thanks, Sheldon. I am originally from LaGrande and can't wait to get back there!

 

[mjbskwim]

I don't believe front wheel drive is better, for anything! My thinking is auto manufacturers just told people it was better for them, when it was actually better for the manufacturers. The drive train is all one little package and they set the body on top, and bolt it all up. No engine/tranny, no drive line and no differential to install desperately. Granted, if you chain up the front you got pull, but if you don't have chains and you let of the gas going down a slippery hill, engine compression will leave you without steering.

I've gone way further with front drive cars than without
As far as losing steering,that goes back to knowing how to drive.
You can lose steering in a rear wheel drive car too. Remember the front brakes are always adjusted up more than the rear.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Mid '70s, rear wheel drive cars, wide open parking lots. Ungated parking lots, at schools and many churches, being in the valley of the Mormons! Dad had a '64 Econoline van and a Toyota Corona. Right outa' high school I got my '63 Rambler Ambassador, with posi. Loved winter snows back then, not so much now.

"63 Ramblers were great snow cars. Put a few sand bags in the back along with a pair of chained up
tires and wheels and a few other things and I was good to go. In the early '70s I lived in Lake Oswego on Parrish St off of McVey. Never had a problem in snow or freezing rain. Once spent 2 1\2 days working in 24 hr gas station on Canyon Rd in Beaverton with the manager because nobody else could get to work and Gulf refused to close it. Even went home once to get my sleeping bag and food and came back with the snow about 10". It did make for a nice paycheck though and there wasn't that much business. but boy it was cold going outside with the wind blowing.

 

[Mikej]

"63 Ramblers were great snow cars. Put a few sand bags in the back along with a pair of chained up
tires and wheels and a few other things and I was good to go. In the early '70s I lived in Lake Oswego on Parrish St off of McVey. Never had a problem in snow or freezing rain. Once spent 2 1\2 days working in 24 hr gas station on Canyon Rd in Beaverton with the manager because nobody else could get to work and Gulf refused to close it. Even went home once to get my sleeping bag and food and came back with the snow about 10". It did make for a nice paycheck though and there wasn't that much business. but boy it was cold going outside with the wind blowing.

First job was "Pump Jockey", early '70s. Graduated and got The "Blur". Working nights during winter too. I learned how to do all that car stuff at that job. Cars aren't built with a lot of that "Stuff" any more though. LOL

I've gone way further with front drive cars than without
As far as losing steering,that goes back to knowing how to drive.
You can lose steering in a rear wheel drive car too. Remember the front brakes are always adjusted up more than the rear.

True that. Like I said I've only driven on snow/ice once with front drive so I probably wouldn't be to good at it now! I'll probably never have anything but all wheel drive at this point in my life.

 

[partsed]

It is amazing the difference between upper Oregon City and lower Oregon City during events like this - it's almost night and day different in terms of conditions over just a couple of miles.


On another note to everyone else reading this, now imagine the Cascadia Quake were to hit the Portland Metro/Vancouver area, say at 8.5+ on the scale. Imagine now it's not just impassible roads due to snow/ice and stalled cars, but now bridges and overpasses are completely out of commission. Imagine you're 5, 10, 20+ miles from home. Now imagine that quake happens on a day just like Wednesday, with snow and ice falling, temperatures below freezing. How many here, and I have to ask myself the same question, are prepared to abandon our cars where we are, throw on a pack and make the hike home, in the snow/ice, crossing rivers, climbing hills, etc. Imagine how many magnitudes worse the area would be - emergency services would be virtually non-existent, likely for days, to most people. ODOT won't be able to save you. Police and fire won't be able to save you. And since a Cascadia event could stretch from northern CA to Vancouver B.C., resources that can come from other parts of the country will be spread thinner than any such event in our country's history.

Yeah, if you want to get a taste of SHTF, just look at the Portland metro area during a snow/ice event, then imagine it lasts for days, weeks, months. Certainly makes me reconsider how I outfit my vehicles for any kind of disaster event - and I have to consider that such a quake won't necessarily wait for a nice gentle spring day.

I have already mapped out the roads I need to take in case of the "big one". There is only one bridge that I haven't found away around, but at that point I am 5 miles from home and could hoof it from there.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Salt rusts everything!

Vehicles, infrastructure, below-grade pipes, bridges, overpasses, re-bar, any ground-level perforation of electrical or fluid conduit that's made with steel. It doesn't end.

Modern cars are better coated than cars of the past, so that's why the auto manufacturers brag about their now-longer rust-thru warranties. But ya get a scratch thru the paint, and like cancer, salt will destroy it.

I have been a mechanic of some kind all my life. When I was an auto mechanic, we always knew when a car was from a salt state. Every hidden nook in the frame or body of any car had rust. Rust never stops. Brake fittings, exhaust, trim fasteners, it never ends. They all rot. Modern cars will just take a little longer to do so.

Although not related to road salt, boat trailers that are used on the coast have a very short life. Dunked in salt water, no chance of rinsing all the salt out, and eventually the trailer will fail.

Salt is another issue where polarization occurs between generations. Old folks like me hate it. Young folks of the disposable generation, love it.

WAYNO.

AGREED!!! SALT F-ing SUCKS! i say this because im the guy that has to fix rusted a$$ cars that are damaged from salt. i feel bad for them technicians that have to deal with it on a daily basis... PLEEEEASE NO SALT!!!

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

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