SHOULD I use Winchester 400 Small Rifle Primers for use in an AR15?

[AMProducts]

To be fair, the only bulk .223 bullets I've ever had problems with were a crapton of winchester 55gr FMJ,s I bought from BHSS a few years ago, the weights were all over the place, the bullets were not fully formed. I ended up sending them back. I've never tried MG, I could always get something else locally, cheaper, berry's also does a 55gr FMJ-BT that I've loaded to good effect, and I was getting those for $70/k for a while.

 

[Gunner3456]

This is an even better deal. 5,000 Lake City 55 Gr. FMJBT for $390.00 DELIVERED USPS Priority Mail. That's only $7.80 a hundred. I'm currently shooting these bullets, and they are some of the most consistant FMJ bulk bullets I've ever loaded or shot.

Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC

Thanks. I'd have to go with that. That's the real deal M193, I'll bet. Now I'd need another 5,000 LC cases because I have all of mine loaded.

 

[billt]

<broken link removed>

Brassman Brass has some good deals. This stuff is processed, but if you check around his website, he offers unprocessed a lot cheaper if you want to save some money and do the prep work yourself.

 

[Gunner3456]

<broken link removed>

Brassman Brass has some good deals. This stuff is processed, but if you check around his website, he offers unprocessed a lot cheaper if you want to save some money and do the prep work yourself.

Actually, from the bullet link you posted, I found this and it isn't too bad. ?? $55. per 1,000? I haven't bought any for a while.

LINK

 

[billt]

I bought 2,500 from him a while back. It was unprocessed and I did all of the prep work and polishing myself. It turned out really well. I didn't have a single bad case that I couldn't reload. This is what it looked like when I was finished with it. I can't remember what I paid. I think it was $120.00 at the time for 2,500 delivered USPS Priority Mail.

 

[Gunner3456]

I'm scratching my head here. Those are good products and prices, but I have a ton of 55gr 5.56 loaded. I do have enough primers and powder to load 5k of those, but I'm not looking forward to processing 5k of brass. I have to do it by hand - decap in a dedicated press, swage by hand with an RCBS unit, and then tumble. I can tumble only about 500 at a time using two tumblers. Also, I actually need to load some 9mm and .40 SW... Hmmm.

 

[billt]

I know what you mean. It's a chore. I also have a ton loaded, but I've got a bad feeling about copper, brass, and lead prices. Especially with fuel on the rise and Israel getting ready to start blasting with Iran. I'm thinking about adding to my reserves for future use. The stuff has an indefinite shelf life, and doesn't take much room to store. You can always prep a little at a time, spreading it out so it doesn't get so monotonous. I'm thinking about getting another 5,000 cases, just to have.

 

[Gunner3456]

I know what you mean. It's a chore. I also have a ton loaded, but I've got a bad feeling about copper, brass, and lead prices. Especially with fuel on the rise and Israel getting ready to start blasting with Iran. I'm thinking about adding to my reserves for future use. The stuff has an indefinite shelf life, and doesn't take much room to store. You can always prep a little at a time, spreading it out so it doesn't get so monotonous. I'm thinking about getting another 5,000 cases, just to have.

Does anyone know how long powder will keep if unopened and stored well?

I have so many reloading components I could almost double my ammo supply now. I have 1,000 of those LC brass and 1,000 psp bullets to load too. I got a deal on the package and I usually buy psp by the box. That's the only brass I have which isn't prepped and tumbled. I like to keep my brass finished. The tumblers are the only thing I have which wouldn't work without electricity. Otherwise I can load away, using a beam scale/powder measure.

 

[billt]

I've shot 35 year old powder before. (DuPont IMR 4831). I not only shot well, but it was also very accurate. It even had that reddish tint to it when I poured it out of the old screw top can. I couldn't tell the difference between it and new stuff.

 

[Gunner3456]

I've shot 35 year old powder before. (DuPont IMR 4831). I not only shot well, but it was also very accurate. It even had that reddish tint to it when I poured it out of the old screw top can. I couldn't tell the difference between it and new stuff.

Thanks. I've never kept it more than 5 years, but now I'm stocking up with large jugs.

I actually need to focus more on buying bullets. I have tons of primers and powder, and I have enough cases to load all of my bullets. Just as in our conversation above, I tend to think of buying enough cases to load all of the bullets. I have them, too. As we know, we can load cases several times although I'm not sure how I'd clean them if we lost electricity.

 

[deadshot2]

Does anyone know how long powder will keep if unopened and stored well?

Longer than most of us have "years left". Unless you store powder in an extremely HOT location it will last many years. I have powder over 30 years old and every once in a while load a few rounds with it. Works fine. Some have loaded WWII surplus powder that they bought a "bazillion pounds" of and just keep it in a cool spot.

As for not having a tumbler because I didn't have electricity, I believe there would be far more important things to worry about than shiny brass. In fact in those conditions, dull brass might be far more beneficial. Less "glint" to give your position away.

The best "tool" to have if you are preparing for a SHTF situation would be a Lee Classic Loader. You can do it all with a setup that would fit in your pocket. For powder measure, just take a .223 case, fill it with your favorite load using a scale. Cut off the top of the case so the powder comes right to the top of your cut off. For SHTF loading, dip new measure case in powder, strike off excess with back of knife blade, fill primed case, add bullet, and repeat as necessary.

It may not be beautiful, or as sexy as a Dillon 650 but it will allow you to load ammo as long as you have powder, primers, and bullets. No need to fill the pack with another 40 lbs of loading gear.

 

[AMProducts]

reloading ASHTF sounds like a losing proposition, all reloading stuff is heavy, and dangerous, and wants very specific storage conditions. The winning strategy here is to invest the time now to reload all of that brass, powder bullets and primers into loaded ammo you don't have to worry about later. 1000 rounds of .223 weighs about 28lbs, 308 is about 3x that. It makes a lot more sense to carry just the ammo, not all the components and excessive packaging that goes with them.

 

[Gunner3456]

reloading ASHTF sounds like a losing proposition, all reloading stuff is heavy, and dangerous, and wants very specific storage conditions. The winning strategy here is to invest the time now to reload all of that brass, powder bullets and primers into loaded ammo you don't have to worry about later. 1000 rounds of .223 weighs about 28lbs, 308 is about 3x that. It makes a lot more sense to carry just the ammo, not all the components and excessive packaging that goes with them.

I couldn't agree more. That's what keeps me buying brass with bullets.

Guess what? If I had to bug out with just what I could carry, it would be a .22lr rifle and pistol and 2k rounds of ammo. Probably a Nylon 66 and a Ruger Standard pistol, 6" barrel.

If all falls to pieces, I hope to stay right here (rural) where I have food, shelter and water, and defend to the death. But you're right, get it loaded.

 

[deadshot2]

reloading ASHTF sounds like a losing proposition, all reloading stuff is heavy, and dangerous, and wants very specific storage conditions. The winning strategy here is to invest the time now to reload all of that brass, powder bullets and primers into loaded ammo you don't have to worry about later. 1000 rounds of .223 weighs about 28lbs, 308 is about 3x that. It makes a lot more sense to carry just the ammo, not all the components and excessive packaging that goes with them.

Some have a strategy of not keeping all their eggs in one basket. Components can be "cached" in various locations. A piece of ABS sewer pipe with caps glued on each end, after filling with containers of powder and a dessicant pack or two can be buried in "secret" locations. Second tube with primers as well as dessicant in a nearby location. even bullets cached in the same manner. Just don't plan on relying on a GPS to find your caches, chances are there won't be any sattelites operating in a real SHTF scenario. Use the old fashioned "Treasure Map" method with immovable landmarks to locate them.

The thought of carrying more ammo than necessary to get to my survival location, or backup site, is unappealing. Of course one can stash loaded ammo in the same manner, it's all a matter of choice.

 

[AMProducts]

Survival reloading is a mistake, like you said, stash ammo, besides, if it really comes down to it, if you're burying a bunch of ammo it looks like a cache, if you're burying a bunch of gunpowder it looks like an IED. Only one of these is illegal last I checked.

 

[deadshot2]

Survival reloading is a mistake, like you said, stash ammo, besides, if it really comes down to it, if you're burying a bunch of ammo it looks like a cache, if you're burying a bunch of gunpowder it looks like an IED. Only one of these is illegal last I checked.

The guy who buys smokeless powder for a bomb needs some more training. Worry lots if he buys Garden Fertilizer in the form of Ammonium Nitrate.

BTW, Here in WA state I can buy as much powder and primers as I want. I just have to store anything more than 50# in a "Magazine", not in my house. Also, 25k primer limit.

 

[AMProducts]

The guy who buys smokeless powder for a bomb needs some more training. Worry lots if he buys Garden Fertilizer in the form of Ammonium Nitrate.

BTW, Here in WA state I can buy as much powder and primers as I want. I just have to store anything more than 50# in a "Magazine", not in my house. Also, 25k primer limit.

This is why I'm moving to WA later this year, I cold-called the county I'm looking at moving to (Snohomish) and talked to them about what storage requirements would be for powder and primers, they told me I wouldn't need a permit to have 5000lbs of powder on hand, but I would need a permit to store more than 250K primers.

Down here we are limited to 750lbs on hand, and just can't put more than 125k primers into a cabinet. We have a type 1 outdoor magazine. It's a real PITA to get more powder, usually have to go through a reseller rather than buying direct.

 

[Gunner3456]

I wonder why the fastest pistol powder wouldn't make a pipe bomb. Surely black powder would. I can remember when the hardware store sold dynamite. I was little, but I remember a neighbor buying it to blast stumps. A few sticks of that, a few hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate and some diesel and you could sure blast a stump, LOL.

 

[deadshot2]

I wonder why the fastest pistol powder wouldn't make a pipe bomb. Surely black powder would. I can remember when the hardware store sold dynamite. I was little, but I remember a neighbor buying it to blast stumps. A few sticks of that, a few hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate and some diesel and you could sure blast a stump, LOL.

A mighty big stump at that.

Gunpowders are classed as "Propellants" rather than explosives. Yes, they have explosive characteristics but not like the real explosives used for mining, demolition, and the real biggies, military explosives.

Powders for use in firearms are designed to generate pressures slowly rather than all at once. It's a measure of Brisance, or the speed at which it generates maximum pressures and a shock wave. Gunpowders, when burned in the open "fizzle". Only generate enough pressure to generate a shock wave when contained while burned and the shock wave is generated when the containment bursts.

True explosives can be detonated in the open and generate a massive shockwave merely due to their Brisance.

This isn't to say that one couldn't make something destructive out of a can of Bullseye or Red Dot but it wouln't be anywhere near as effective as a 1/4 lb block of what we used to heat our C-Rations on.

Considering the penalties for even playing around with these "Super Noisemakers", I think I'll just stick with putting my smokeless powders in cartridges.

Lastly, yes, Black Powder is very dangerous and was the explosive of the early centuries. Nowhere near the power of Nitroglycerin though. "Nitro" though was far too dangerous until Nobel found a way to make it into a safely handled state.

If you've ever been close to "Military Grade" explosives when they've detonated, you KNOW the difference.

 

[AMProducts]

To refine what deadshot said somewhat:

There are really two types of conventional explosions, the type where a container (a pipe) is used to hold back the pressure until it gets high enough to catastrophically rupture the container, (usually by burning, but the same thing applies to say dry ice), and high order explosions, where a blast wave moves through the material and at the shock front the chemical reactions that are converting a solid or liquid explosive directly into high temperature gas.

Gun powder will cause an explosion if set off en masse, however this is a low order explosion and is more consistent with a rapid burning rather than a high order explosion. Despite the fact that smokeless powder is made from the same stuff as more than a few high explosives (NG, nitrocellulose, DDNP, etc) the physical form it's in limits the propagation of shock fronts through the materials preventing a high order explosion.

As was mentioned earlier, ANFO, requires a rather significant detonator, usually a quarter stick of dynamite or semtex to act as a booster to get the explosion to go high order, otherwise you just get a diesel smelling mess.

If you have a real interest in learning about explosives, and actually handling explosives, there are more than a few ways to get into it, find commercial blasters in your area and talk to them about doing some intern work. I've done it, and it can be a hell of a lot of fun. Eventually if you're serious, you should consider an FEL http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5400-13.pdf I had one years ago when I was doing high power rocketry. If you are an infrequent user and don't want to set up a storage magazine, and have a dealer close by, you can just get the "limited" license which is $25/yr and have a day-box. Granted, you have to blow off all the boom you buy (no storage!) but if you need to do some explosive redecoration of a field (removing stumps) it's a legal way to go.