Should I Invest in Horandy Concentric Gauge?

[galvweld]

Don't participate in competitive rifle shooting. However, spend a fair amount of time reloading and shooting for accuracy. Focus mostly on .223 through several rifles or different designs. Yes, AR 15 with quality barrels, one factory varmint gun. Shoot Remington 700's. One with PACNOR barrel and other Remington 700 VLS. Wondering if investment would increase accuracy or? Should I spend the dollars on bullets and powder?

Read More

 

[DizzyJ]

How far out are you going to shoot, and how anal are you about group size?

Most people will be better served putting in the time and effort into practice.

However, gauges are a tool that can help you diagnose possible issues on the paper.

Sinclair also makes a concentricity gauge. I have both.

 

[flashpan]

My take ... if you have invested in quality barrels like PACNOR, then a concentricity tool is worth every penny. I use one made by Forster/Bonanza.

 

[DizzyJ]

Some dies and reloading techniques will induce runout. Runout can cause issues with groups if bad enough.

A lot of the long range guys try to get it down to .001" for really reaching out there.

Of course the components you start with will play a major factor in what you get.

How far down that rabbit hole do you want to go? Lol

 

[galvweld]

How far out are you going to shoot, and how anal are you about group size?

Most people will be better served putting in the time and effort into practice.

However, gauges are a tool that can help you diagnose possible issues on the paper.

Sinclair also makes a concentricity gauge. I have both.

Get stupid about group size. Range targets are only 200 yards but get to eastern Oregon and shoot 500 plus yards. Not often enough, but enough to be interested in accuracy.

 

[DizzyJ]

Get stupid about group size. Range targets are only 200 yards but get to eastern Oregon and shoot 500 plus yards. Not often enough, but enough to be interested in accuracy.

Then I'd say it's going to bug the crap out of you if you don't get one.

I'd suggest picking up a few different books on precision reloading if I were you.

Handloading Competition: Making the Target Bigger by Glen Zediker

By Glen Zediker. An in-depth detailed look at handloading for competition discussing everything from equipment selection and load data to loading...

ads.midwayusa.com

Creedmoor Sports - Precision Reloading and Shooting Gear

Shoot and Reload with the Pros! Creedmoor Sports has served the Precision Shooting Community for over 40 years in Centerfire, Small-bore, Air Rifle and Pistol Disciplines.

www.creedmoorsports.com

Metallic Cartridge Handloading: Pursuit of the Perfect Cartridge by

Mic McPherson has written one of those books you only see once every so many decades; it literally contains everything that you need to know about...

ads.midwayusa.com

These are three books that have been a good insight into precision reloading.

I'd suggest looking into them before you decide on which tools to purchase. It might save you money down the road.

 

[galvweld]

Then I'd say it's going to bug the crap out of you if you don't get one.

I'd suggest picking up a few different books on precision reloading if I were you.

Handloading Competition: Making the Target Bigger by Glen Zediker

By Glen Zediker. An in-depth detailed look at handloading for competition discussing everything from equipment selection and load data to loading...

ads.midwayusa.com

Creedmoor Sports - Precision Reloading and Shooting Gear

Shoot and Reload with the Pros! Creedmoor Sports has served the Precision Shooting Community for over 40 years in Centerfire, Small-bore, Air Rifle and Pistol Disciplines.

www.creedmoorsports.com

Metallic Cartridge Handloading: Pursuit of the Perfect Cartridge by

Mic McPherson has written one of those books you only see once every so many decades; it literally contains everything that you need to know about...

ads.midwayusa.com

These are three books that have been a good insight into precision reloading.

I'd suggest looking into them before you decide on which tools to purchase. It might save you money down the road.

Awesome! I actually read. I'm not above stopping and asking for directions, where GPS doesn't work. Really like quality tools, but not interested in spending $100 plus to have it take shelf space. Best price I've found for gauge is Brownell's. Hornady gets the best reviews, Forster-not so much.

 

[DizzyJ]

Awesome! I actually read. I'm not above stopping and asking for directions, where GPS doesn't work. Really like quality tools, but not interested in spending $100 plus to have it take shelf space. Best price I've found for gauge is Brownell's. Hornady gets the best reviews, Forster-not so much.

Zediker recommends the Sinclair concentricity gauge. Again, doing your own research will make you feel better about what you ultimately end up with.

 

[flashpan]

galvweld
You have a chronograph...right?

 

[galvweld]

galvweld
You have a chronograph...right?

Sure enough.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Every hand loader that cares about making the most uniform, concentric ammo and setting their dies up properly should own and use a concentricity gauge. I dont care which one you pick, but it should be easy to use and also be accurate. Thats probably why the hornady unit gets rave reviews. I know guys hate hearing that regular run of the mill RCBS dies you can purchase at bi-mart, can be adjusted to produce some exceptionally concentric ammo. They want others to believe you have to pay top dollar for Sinclair or Forster. Sorry folks, thats just not true. A great example i can share with you happened just the other day. Setting up my dies for a new 300WSM, i check run-out with my brown precision concentricity gauge and the needle didnt even move on the first 2 i loaded. Thats 000 TIR: Perfectly concentric. AKA no run-out. The third one read .002" TIR, the next read. 001". It went on like that after checking 20. I put the gauge away because it confirmed that my die was adjusted properly. The beauty in using this gauge is you automatically deduct one variable out of the equation of accurate handloading. Without it, you are "flying blind"

 

[orygun]

@bsa1917hunter 's post is spot on. I have a concentricity gauge that I've used a couple of times. I checked every round I had already loaded with RCBS dies for my '06 when I got it and was very happy with the results. I don't think I had anything that read .000", but there was nothing worse than .0015". I've pulled it out a couple of times since with identical results. Along with a solid press I believe the dies are critical. If they don't put rounds together straight in the first place, you're screwed.
If the OP can find someone in his area that would help him test a handful of rounds he could see what it's all about. He would find out if his ammo is good (or not) and would have some insight to making a judgement on buying a tester.

 

[galvweld]

@bsa1917hunter 's post is spot on. I have a concentricity gauge that I've used a couple of times. I checked every round I had already loaded with RCBS dies for my '06 when I got it and was very happy with the results. I don't think I had anything that read .000", but there was nothing worse than .0015". I've pulled it out a couple of times since with identical results. Along with a solid press I believe the dies are critical. If they don't put rounds together straight in the first place, you're screwed.
If the OP can find someone in his area that would help him test a handful of rounds he could see what it's all about. He would find out if his ammo is good (or not) and would have some insight to making a judgement on buying a tester.

Good stuff, from everyone. Use RCBS competition dies and RCBS turret press. Consistent sorting of brass, cleaning done with steel pins. Keep precise records at loading bench. Need to bring more targets home for more than cursory reviews. Probably the major weakness is bullet choice. Don't skimp on bullets when reloading for hunting. Buy target bullets based on sales price. Still highly considering buying a gauge.

 

[Goosebrown]

Runout is mostly a function of case throat length and seating depth. 223 has an itty bitty short neck so there's more possibility of being non concentric.

Get the tool.

Also helps to use great brass which means lapua if you're serious about precision.

If you're not, I tested with a bunch of 223 brass and brought my groups in by 3/4" by using only lake city brass and selling the rest. There was too much variation in capacity from manufacturer otherwise.

For some calibers like 6mmbr the throat is looooooong and it tends to make seating more regular and concentric given neck turned brass.

Your bullet choice is your thing but I've had great luck with 69gr Sierra BTHP Match. Really excellent.

For non AR platforms, the hornady 75 go are the bomb

 

[galvweld]

Runout is mostly a function of case throat length and seating depth. 223 has an itty bitty short neck so there's more possibility of being non concentric.

Get the tool.

Also helps to use great brass which means lapua if you're serious about precision.

If you're not, I tested with a bunch of 223 brass and brought my groups in by 3/4" by using only lake city brass and selling the rest. There was too much variation in capacity from manufacturer otherwise.

For some calibers like 6mmbr the throat is looooooong and it tends to make seating more regular and concentric given neck turned brass.

Your bullet choice is your thing but I've had great luck with 69gr Sierra BTHP Match. Really excellent.

For non AR platforms, the hornady 75 go are the bomb

Always like good detailed advice. Thanks

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

IMO, i like to spend more time shooting than reloading. my rifle rounds are accurate enough for me. i killed a buck from 420yards this year with my handloads out of an AR so im good with that

 

[galvweld]

Always enjoy a good story. I load a lot. Observe a bunch. Try and ask good questions. Try to implement the best information. Watched Tiger Woods at the Bell South Classic in the late nineties. Just cause he could hit a 300 yard drive didn't mean I could. My question about the gauge was in earnest.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

@bsa1917hunter 's post is spot on. I have a concentricity gauge that I've used a couple of times. I checked every round I had already loaded with RCBS dies for my '06 when I got it and was very happy with the results. I don't think I had anything that read .000", but there was nothing worse than .0015". I've pulled it out a couple of times since with identical results. Along with a solid press I believe the dies are critical. If they don't put rounds together straight in the first place, you're screwed.
If the OP can find someone in his area that would help him test a handful of rounds he could see what it's all about. He would find out if his ammo is good (or not) and would have some insight to making a judgement on buying a tester.

Good post buddy. I've been out of state since wednesday (for thanksgiving) and couldn't post pics very well from my crappy cell pnone, but here is what I use:


I tested the concentricity on these loaded 338wm rounds and they were all less than .002" TIR (total indicator run-out). I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here with my last post, but sometimes I do just that. I think with time and more experience guys will realize what I'm saying is the truth. You have also found the same to be true. A person needs a sure fire way to test the concentricity of his loaded rounds. Its been proven that straight ammo is what you want when you are searching for the best precision/accuracy in your loads.

Here's another load that was phenomaly straight with very minimal TIR:


Here's the article on the Brown Precision little wiggler concentricity gauge I use:

Issues | RifleMagazine

Home of Rifle Magazine. Subscribe, order back issues, and buy Sporting Goods at great prices.

www.riflemagazine.com

It goes into good detail about why it's important to load straight ammo... For those of you that care to read of such things..

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Good stuff, from everyone. Use RCBS competition dies and RCBS turret press. Consistent sorting of brass, cleaning done with steel pins. Keep precise records at loading bench. Need to bring more targets home for more than cursory reviews. Probably the major weakness is bullet choice. Don't skimp on bullets when reloading for hunting. Buy target bullets based on sales price. Still highly considering buying a gauge.

I'll have to correct you on your statement about not "skimping" on bullets when loading for hunting. I only buy seconds from SPS for hunting. I get groups like this as well:

I bought bags and bags of these bullets. They had a canelure on them and SPS sold them at a huge discount.
That same load did this:


SPS partitions did this:




The majority of these bullets were $13.50/bag of 50. Just be aware that you don't have to pay full retail prices (if that is what you were meaning by not skimping) to get excellent bullets.

Also, my last bull fell to a rather inexpensive hornady interlock, so again I don't know what you mean by "skimp". You can't get much cheaper than those, unless you buy corelokts . Also, all that fluff you use works, but is not necessary... No need for competition die sets, turret presses or stainless steel pins for tumbling. If you don't have a means to actually check your loads for concentricity, you are really not gaining anything with those fancy dies you have... In the end, the one with the most concentric, most uniform, most consistently accurate ammo, wins... and if you are smart about what and where you buy, you will end up with more dollars in your pocket as well.. Just something to think about...

 

[DizzyJ]

Good post buddy. I've been out of state since wednesday (for thanksgiving) and couldn't post pics very well from my crappy cell pnone, but here is what I use:
View attachment 637254

I tested the concentricity on these loaded 338wm rounds and they were all less than .002" TIR (total indicator run-out). I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here with my last post, but sometimes I do just that. I think with time and more experience guys will realize what I'm saying is the truth. You have also found the same to be true. A person needs a sure fire way to test the concentricity of his loaded rounds. Its been proven that straight ammo is what you want when you are searching for the best precision/accuracy in your loads.

Here's another load that was phenomaly straight with very minimal TIR:
View attachment 637255

Here's the article on the Brown Precision little wiggler concentricity gauge I use:

Issues | RifleMagazine

Home of Rifle Magazine. Subscribe, order back issues, and buy Sporting Goods at great prices.

www.riflemagazine.com

It goes into good detail about why it's important to load straight ammo... For those of you that care to read of such things..

Appreciate the link to the read on concentricity. I know RCBS told us several years ago that concentricity was a key component to accurate loads.