12 gauge defensive ammo

[Dartor]

What do you prefer for home defense, 00 buck or #4? Or something else?
Thanks

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[Andy54Hawken]

Yes.
As in use what functions and patterns best in your shotgun.
( And for your living / home situation )
Practice is important with any firearm...practice with a defensive firearm is extremely important.

Also....
If you find yourself in a situation where you don't have what is commonly considered preferred for home defense...
No need to roll over and wait to die .
Be adaptable with your plan , actions and items.
Andy

 

[Certaindeaf]

Slugs.

 

[Bearskinner]

If you live in the city with close neighbors, over penetration is an issue. Slugs or 00 buck could go into your neighbors home. If your out in the woods, and can't see your neighbors, different rules apply

 

[WillametteWill]

8 pellet, 00 buck Federal FliteControl works well in my gun, with my barrel and choke. 9 pellet is okay as well. You have to think about the final resting place of each pellet and a tight group of 8 or 9 pellets may be better for some than 27 pellets of 4 buck. Depending on the distance, 4 buck will not have the penetration as the larger pellets. Not saying 4 buck is bad, just that we need to consider the factors.

As @Andy54Hawken noted, practice is important, as are gun handling skills and knowing how and where your specific shotgun patterns. If I had a single shot with 4 buck and that was all that was available, it will still stop a threat if used properly.

Here is an article that shows some setups, patterns and discusses some additional thoughts from the Rangemaster Shotgun Instructor Workshop if you are interested.

I see you are newer here...welcome to the forum!

 

[Tony617]

At home defense distances pretty much any resonable load of 9 pellet 00 buckshot will do just fine. I have some Federal 9 pellet 00 buckshot and it works fine, If you have neighbors close buy then might want to rethink this since shotgun pellets go though the walls and may go into you neighbors home. I live in a cul de sac so probably won't be using my shotgun.

 

[Ben B.]

I was convinced 20 years ago to use #1 buck for this purpose. I checked current thought before posting this and it looks like LuckyGunner tests agree.

Buckshot Sizes & More Shotgun Stuff You Should Know

Buckshot sizes and more stuff you need to know about shotgun ammo. Tips on patterning, various shells dissected and more in this easy to follow guide.

www.luckygunner.com

 

[JTK1791]

7.62x39

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If you live in the city with close neighbors, over penetration is an issue. Slugs or 00 buck could go into your neighbors home...

That's why you want to use explosive slugs:

FullSizeRender.MOV

• ilikegunspdx
• Jan 7, 2024

...(j/k)

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If in doubt, use massive firepower. Slugs and #00 buck from mag fed shotgun delivering 12-20 rounds accurately at 300 rounds per minute. If slugs that's up to 47,000 ft lbs of energy -and over 8700 grains of lead- in 4 seconds. If #00 buck that's the equivalent of 180-300 rounds of .380 handgun in 4 seconds. That would kinda hurt.

...btw just kidding about that stuff, nobody is going to mag dump that much into an intruder. But kind of like having a very powerful vehicle. Nice to know the power is there if you need it.

 

[Jay Walk]

at 7 yards 7 1/2 shoots a 1" hole through formica laminated to 3/4" particle board.

Don't over think it if you are using a 12 gauge.
It's a 12 gauge.

 

[Local Loader]

A good one I've found is Winchester AA Low recoil bird shot. Low Recoil 9 shot target works at well but prefer the LR bird since it has a lower velocity so less likely to over penetrate.

 

[Dartor]

That's why you want to use explosive slugs:

FullSizeRender.MOV

• ilikegunspdx
• Jan 7, 2024

...(j/k)

Damn

 

[WillametteWill]

If in doubt, use massive firepower. Slugs and #00 buck from mag fed shotgun delivering 12-20 rounds accurately at 300 rounds per minute. If slugs that's up to 47,000 ft lbs of energy -and over 8700 grains of lead- in 4 seconds. If #00 buck that's the equivalent of 180-300 rounds of .380 handgun in 4 seconds. That would kinda hurt.

...btw just kidding about that stuff, nobody is going to mag dump that much into an intruder. But kind of like having a very powerful vehicle. Nice to know the power is there if you need it.

I get your humor...and like it. You mentioning super-de-duper mag fed semi autos and high performance vehciles reminded me of something and a connection. Many (many) years ago, Road & Track magazine did a test on which was the fastest, a Ferrari, a Lambo and a Corvette. They had factory mechanics there for all three vehicles. They could never get the Ferrari or Lambo anywhere close to their stated max speed. The Vette, although lower, actually performed as intended.

Something to be said for a big block/small block Chevy.

I see these mag/drum/belt fed semiautos at the range and their failure rate is, well, similar to a Ferrari or Lambo.
Something to be said for a basic pump gun.

at 7 yards 7 1/2 shoots a 1" hole through formica laminated to 3/4" particle board.

A good one I've found is Winchester AA Low recoil bird shot. Low Recoil 9 shot target works at well but prefer the LR bird since it has a lower velocity so less likely to over penetrate.

I've reviewed many autopsy photos of buck shot. I've also reviewed many hospital photos of bird shot. Notice the difference? Sure, at extremely close range is a 1oz+ wad of shot. But very quickly, bird shot can become something that will not go very far under the skin, meaning it does not hit vital organs. Not that I want to be shot with it, but just some food for thought.

 

[BMGMAN]

Dragons breath FTW

 

[Local Loader]

I've reviewed many autopsy photos of buck shot. I've also reviewed many hospital photos of bird shot. Notice the difference? Sure, at extremely close range is a 1oz+ wad of shot. But very quickly, bird shot can become something that will not go very far under the skin, meaning it does not hit vital organs. Not that I want to be shot with it, but just some food for ththought.

At 5-15' I'm sure bird shot is going to leave a pretty nice size hole. My main goal with it is to take the person(s) down without the round(s) leaving the property. Not a fan of that liability part if it hits something I don't want it to.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I get your humor...and like it. You mentioning super-de-duper mag fed semi autos and high performance vehciles reminded me of something and a connection. Many (many) years ago, Road & Track magazine did a test on which was the fastest, a Ferrari, a Lambo and a Corvette. They had factory mechanics there for all three vehicles. They could never get the Ferrari or Lambo anywhere close to their stated max speed. The Vette, although lower, actually performed as intended.

Ferraris, lambos, and saiga 12's are temperamental. Lynx 12 is not. Never a malfunction of any kind for me and only failure I've heard of is a broken bolt at 11,000 rounds.

I have used tube fed shotguns for decades. I sold them all after buying lynx 12s. Higher capacity, faster to reload (swap mags), higher rate of fire, up to 70% less recoil if using good muzzle brake. There is no comparison in my experience. It's like using an AR rifle vs a tube tube fed bolt action, it's that big of a difference.

 

[Catbox]

I would also say it depends on where you are located in the house versus where you will most likely be shooting too.
My house is a small ranch style house, so I would be at one end of the hallway shooting towards the living room with a wall that is next to the garage.
I am not going to be as worried about over penetration as there is a lot of garage to go into.
We will use 00Buck as the hall is only 20 feet long into the living room.

This may not be your case and should adopt your ammo accordingly.

 

[WillametteWill]

At 5-15' I'm sure bird shot is going to leave a pretty nice size hole. My main goal with it is to take the person(s) down without the round(s) leaving the property. Not a fan of that liability part if it hits something I don't want it to.

In my house, I can have possible/likely shots of 7 to 10 yards in a home invasion situation. When I teach defensive shotgun, I give pre-class homework and have folks measure likely shot distances inside their homes in a defensive encounter. Here is an interesting article on the topic. Notice the 10-yard spread of bird shot (for those not looking, it pretty much covers a USPSA target). Compare that to the 10-yard spread of 8 pellets, 00 buck Federal flight control (about a 4" spread in their gun).

Also note the penetration of birdshot into ballistic gel, about 6" max. This was done at 10 FEET, not yards. There is a ballpark presumption that the first four inches of penetration in the gel is approximately equivalent to just getting through human skin. This will be more prevalent with extremely lightweight projectiles (i.e., birdshot). Now add a heavy coat and another layer or two of cloth. Eight of their nine pellet load (different from the pattern test apparently) had 16" of penetration, which would mean at 10 feet to 30 feet, it would be lower but still able to stop a fight by hitting significantly important tissue.

I support everyone choosing the ammo they feel will best meet their needs. I have a home layout where 00 buck works for me but to each their own. Just wanted to share a little food for thought on the topic from past and continuing research.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

In my house, I can have possible/likely shots of 7 to 10 yards in a home invasion situation. When I teach defensive shotgun, I give pre-class homework and have folks measure likely shot distances inside their homes in a defensive encounter. Here is an interesting article on the topic. Notice the 10-yard spread of bird shot (for those not looking, it pretty much covers a USPSA target). Compare that to the 10-yard spread of 8 pellets, 00 buck Federal flight control (about a 4" spread in their gun).

Also note the penetration of birdshot into ballistic gel, about 6" max. This was done at 10 FEET, not yards. There is a ballpark presumption that the first four inches of penetration in the gel is approximately equivalent to just getting through human skin. This will be more prevalent with extremely lightweight projectiles (i.e., birdshot). Now add a heavy coat and another layer or two of cloth. Eight of their nine pellet load (different from the pattern test apparently) had 16" of penetration, which would mean at 10 feet to 30 feet, it would be lower but still able to stop a fight by hitting significantly important tissue.

I support everyone choosing the ammo they feel will best meet their needs. I have a home layout where 00 buck works for me but to each their own. Just wanted to share a little food for thought on the topic from past and continuing research.

Agree all you have to do is look how far the birdshot penetrated into the meat of a pheasant you shot at pretty close range (a pheasant being tiny and lightweight with thin hollow bones compared to a human). In contrast each pellet of #00 buck is roughly equivalent to a bullet from a .380 pistol, but all the pellets hit at the same time. So kinda like having 9 guys (for 2 3/4" shell) all shoot you with a .380 at the same time, for each round of #00 buck.

Taken to an extreme example, my lynx 12 shoots at 300 rounds per minute accurately. So let's say you had the drop on a perp but, being a dumbass, he chose to draw on you anyway. In a typical draw time of 1.5 seconds let's say, it accurately delivers 7 rounds (conservatively), or 63 #00 buck pellets. Nobody would enjoy being shot 63 times by a .380 in the time it takes to draw their gun.