National Shockwave legal OAL - include mag extension?

[The Heretic]

If I put a mag extension on a Mossberg Shockwave, such that it extends past the muzzle of the barrel, does that count towards the OAL with respect to it being a legal 26"??

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[It-That]

Mossbergs can have mag extensions? Please post the thing in question, I want one

 

[The Heretic]

590 Magazine Extension, +One - Matte

Go one more round with this +1 magazine extension. Great for home defense or hunters looking to add more capacity to their magazine. Compatible with 590 or 835 models. Note: Not recommended for 590 Shockwave.

www.mossberg.com

In this photo, a standard Shockwave without a mag extension, you can see the barrel is barely longer than the end of the mag tube:


Shockwaves with mag extensions (with a standoff device on the end of the extension):

 

[The Heretic]

Solid Upgrade: SB Tactical Brace for Remington TAC-13 and Mossberg Shockwave

Adding a brace to the non-NFA smoothbore firearms like the TAC-13 and the Shockwave makes them much easier to use and does not interfere with their non-NFA status.

www.range365.com

"ATF's 2019 letter was clarifying how to measure the overall length of firearms with folding and collapsible braces. It stated that when a brace is foldable or collapsible, the overall length must be measured with the brace folded or collapsed. For fixed braces, overall length is measured from the end of the buffer tube to the muzzle."

 

[Mark W.]

No buffler tube in a shockwave

 

[RedneckRampage]

No, it does not count towards the overall length.

 

[BillM]

From the atf.gov site:

 

[User 1234]

From the atf.gov site:

View attachment 1132099

That does not apply to a Shockwave because a Shockwave was never a shotgun and therefore not made from a shotgun.

 

[BillM]

That does not apply to a Shockwave because a Shockwave was never a shotgun and therefore not made from a shotgun.

There was rifle above it on the page. The relevant part is the definition of how ATF measures
the length of a firearm.

Here is another clip---this one from the NIST.Gov site:

4.2.5 Measurands: The quantities to be measured for BL-OL are described in ATF-NFA. Briefly, "The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel", and "The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore."

 

[The Heretic]

There was rifle above it on the page. The relevant part is the definition of how ATF measures
the length of a firearm.

Here is another clip---this one from the NIST.Gov site:

4.2.5 Measurands: The quantities to be measured for BL-OL are described in ATF-NFA. Briefly, "The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel", and "The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore."

But barrel length in an of itself is irrelevant with regards to the Shockwave/et. al. - only in how it pertains to overall length.

There is at least one variation of these "firearms" (BAT Pro Series S Mini) that has a ten inch barrel and a pistol brace, making it 26"+ OAL:

 

[It-That]

590 Magazine Extension, +One - Matte

Go one more round with this +1 magazine extension. Great for home defense or hunters looking to add more capacity to their magazine. Compatible with 590 or 835 models. Note: Not recommended for 590 Shockwave.

www.mossberg.com

View attachment 1131896
In this photo, a standard Shockwave without a mag extension, you can see the barrel is barely longer than the end of the mag tube:
View attachment 1131897

Shockwaves with mag extensions (with a standoff device on the end of the extension):
View attachment 1131898

How's does this even work my Mossberg pgo has a threaded bolt that goes into the barrel lug. Did they change the design with these new ones? Sorry for the off topic it's captured my curisocity

 

[The Heretic]

How's does this even work my Mossberg pgo has a threaded bolt that goes into the barrel lug. Did they change the design with these new ones? Sorry for the off topic it's captured my curisocity

I don't have one, but I assume the extension threads into the lug

 

[It-That]

I don't have one, but I assume the extension threads into the lug

So the magazine extension doesn't actually hold extra rounds? A +0 mag extension if you will? What does it help with? Mounting space?

 

[arakboss]

If I put a mag extension on a Mossberg Shockwave, such that it extends past the muzzle of the barrel, does that count towards the OAL with respect to it being a legal 26"??

Great question, I would think they should count it.

 

[The Heretic]

So the magazine extension doesn't actually hold extra rounds? A +0 mag extension if you will? What does it help with? Mounting space?

It does hold extra rounds.

 

[The Heretic]

Great question, I would think they should count it.

I think so too - it isn't like the gun can function without the mag tube or with the extension removed (unless you put the cap back on).

 

[arakboss]

But barrel length in an of itself is irrelevant with regards to the Shockwave/et. al. - only in how it pertains to overall length.

There is at least one variation of these "firearms" (BAT Pro Series S Mini) that has a ten inch barrel and a pistol brace, making it 26"+ OAL:

View attachment 1132441

This is non NFA, correct? Do you think they counted the OAL without the brace removed? I am working on ideas for a 12ga built on AR15 receivers (probably slam fire design because I am lazy) and would like to make the barrel as short as possible while still having 26+ OAL.

 

[The Heretic]

This is non NFA, correct? Do you think they counted the OAL without the brace removed? I am working on ideas for a 12ga built on AR15 receivers (probably slam fire design because I am lazy) and would like to make the barrel as short as possible while still having 26+ OAL.

AFAIK yes, non-NFA "firearm", which I believe includes the brace - I don't see how it could be non-NFA otherwise

 

[It-That]

It does hold extra rounds.

They must have redesigned these shockwave ones from the old PGO ones. Darn.

 

[arakboss]

But barrel length in an of itself is irrelevant with regards to the Shockwave/et. al. - only in how it pertains to overall length.

There is at least one variation of these "firearms" (BAT Pro Series S Mini) that has a ten inch barrel and a pistol brace, making it 26"+ OAL:

View attachment 1132441

Here is a problem I see with the firearm pictured. The brace is classified as an accessory and should not be counted in the OAL. The tube that the brace is mounted on could also be classified as an accessory and may not count towards the OAL unless it's necessary for the function of the firearm. This is why I would like to incorporate a buffer tube as a necessary part of my AR 12ga build. I will not be running a brace on it.