Seattle police confiscate gun without conviction...

[Koda]

I'm all for keeping guns from mentally unstable people but not without due process. According to the article...

Mental illness is suspected, but that new law allowed police to legally disarm him.

now before we start preaching to the choir about how this is a bunch of whatever BS, agenda, knee jerk feel good remarks I have a legitimate question especially for those with legal experience...

• according to the KATU article the guy was "intimidating" people with his gun on his side (presumably holstered), KOMO news (Seattle) says the police received many calls about the guys escalating behavior including "harassment" while wearing the gun. Isn't there any law already in place that could be used to arrest and charge the guy for that?

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[No_Regerts]

Open carry will be the red flag.

 

[awshoot]

There aren't many details in the story so it is hard to say but perhaps this would have applied, RCW 9A.46.020: Definition—Penalties. :

(1) A person is guilty of harassment if:

(a) Without lawful authority, the person knowingly threatens:

(i) To cause bodily injury immediately or in the future to the person threatened or to any other person; or
(ii) To cause physical damage to the property of a person other than the actor; or
(iii) To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or
(iv) Maliciously to do any other act which is intended to substantially harm the person threatened or another with respect to his or her physical or mental health or safety; and​

(b) The person by words or conduct places the person threatened in reasonable fear that the threat will be carried out. "Words or conduct" includes, in addition to any other form of communication or conduct, the sending of an electronic communication.
​

I would say that in my opinion, anyone who open carries has a real duty to all other firearm owners to be the most polite and calm person on the planet lest he or she taint all of us with his or her actions.

 

[Alexx1401]

Only glanced at the article as KOMO is no longer "news" and has not been for decades. I would not trust them if they said it was going to get dark tonight. All that said I can see this kind of law being a "good thing" that will turn into a weapon to use against law abiding. They will tout some good cases and behind the scenes never mention the people who are totally innocent and have this used against them. Not really sure what the hell the answer is but I do NOT trust this kind of thing to not be abused.

 

[Argonaut]

I can see both sides of this problem. I am a huge supporter of due process but if the cops pat this guy on the head and send him off.....that doesn't sound good either. Many of these laws about what the government can't do have little or no consequences for the authorities (remember AL Gore's "no controlling authority") The cops would have been eviscerated (rightfully so) if the guy went off and killed someone after letting him go away armed.

 

[Rickenbacher39]

I agree with Argonaut's post above
and...........AND...........it's Seattle.
That city has bigger problems than this. Way bigger.
I moved away from there 10.5 seconds after I retired.
Although I do enjoy watching their annual May Day riots on tv.
Very entertaining.

 

[Mikej]

From what the articles said, my opinion is that guy was a lit fuse. And just going on that i would say the system worked the way it was supposed to. Now, the guy needs to have access to a system that will get his firearms back quickly IF it's determined by professionals that he IS sane.

The thing that I just know will happen are the people that are so terribly afraid of ANY "GUN" will have fits of anxiety when seeing a gun, call in, and say they are/were intimidated and threatened buy the mere sight of a man carrying a gun. What then?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

"a .25 caliber automatic"

 

[Argonaut]

From what the articles said, my opinion is that guy was a lit fuse. And just going on that i would say the system worked the way it was supposed to. Now, the guy needs to have access to a system that will get his firearms back quickly IF it's determined by professionals that he IS sane.

The thing that I just know will happen are the people that are so terribly afraid of ANY "GUN" will have fits of anxiety when seeing a gun, call in, and say they are/were intimidated and threatened buy the mere sight of a man carrying a gun. What then?

This is another case where we need to hire good LE people and give them some latitude. They are the people tasked with direct contact to the situation without seeing the issue through the filter of the media or press and have the best opportunity to see what is nessisary to protect all involved. The system isn't perfect but I don't know of a better one.

 

[DB is Here]

Open carrying has it's risks especially in large cities like Seattle...My recommendation is "Don't do it". But if you do, you'd best be on your best behavior. 2-3 years ago a man was called into the Seattle PD for open carry as his wife and he were on a walk around greenlake.

From what the articles said, my opinion is that guy was a lit fuse. And just going on that i would say the system worked the way it was supposed to. Now, the guy needs to have access to a system that will get his firearms back quickly IF it's determined by professionals that he IS sane.

The thing that I just know will happen are the people that are so terribly afraid of ANY "GUN" will have fits of anxiety when seeing a gun, call in, and say they are/were intimidated and threatened buy the mere sight of a man carrying a gun. What then?

Agreed, this is the unintended and possibly intended consequence of this law. A "seen" gun is intimidation...Ugh.

 

[Argonaut]

"a .25 caliber automatic"

It meets the definition........

 

[Mikej]

"a .25 caliber automatic"

Huh. I read that and thought "What's he going to do with that?" That might no go through a Carhart and a couple of shirts at more than 20'?

 

[Kruel J]

.25 ACP, the most deadly of the high powered assault pistols.

 

[Boboclown]

Guess Due Process isn't important. Attack of Fifth Amendment to get to our Second. Even the Fourth.

So how is it supposed to be only the Second they disapprove of?

 

[Argonaut]

In the Ian Fleming Bond books......(yes there were real books) 007 typically carried a Beretta 25 ACP. I have read more people are killed (outside of military action) with a 22 LR than any other caliber.

 

[Argonaut]

Guess Due Process isn't important. Attack of Fifth Amendment to get to our Second. Even the Fourth.

So how is it supposed to be only the Second they disapprove of?

Due process is important off course.......but when a guy is pointing a gun at you you don't read him his Miranda rights. Lincoln suspended many rights during the Civil War by executive declaration. When lives are in danger or a person apears to be a danger to other people due process becomes secondary to safety. It has always been that way and is the only logical way for life and death issues to be delt with. There is time to give the guy his gun back via due process after the threat has been evaluated and passed.

 

[Boboclown]

The police do not need to read your Miranda Rights upon arrest. Its only prior to interrogation that they need to.

However it was said the gun was holstered, not that he pointed it at anyone.

 

[Argonaut]

The police do not need to read your Miranda Rights upon arrest. Its only prior to interrogation that they need to.

However it was said the gun was holstered, not that he pointed it at anyone.

The issue is the Police precived it as a problem (I believe that should be under there discretion initally) If they were wrong, he should get his gun back no harm no fowl. But if there concerns were justified they could have prevented a disaster. All those things can be sorted out with full due process........but no one was hurt and the guy was minorley inconvenienced. If he is judged to be a risk, he shouldn't have the gun anyway. At that point it requires a judge to sort it out. That is due process. The police will be called to explain there actions as they should be.......but they were the responsible party on site and need the latitude to make this kind of judgement call.

 

[DB is Here]

The police do not need to read your Miranda Rights upon arrest. Its only prior to interrogation that they need to.

However it was said the gun was holstered, not that he pointed it at anyone.

The report said was starring people down...not something you'd do if you were OC'ing I'd think. Then again w/o hearing both sides I think we're left with a lot of assumptions.

 

[Sandaholic]

The incident involves a man who lives in Belltown, who neighbors said had been intimidating people for the past year - even staring-down customers through store-front windows with a gun holstered at his side.

"I'm very supportive of this law," Montana said. "This is a perfect case in point where it's had some efficacy. It was an immediate crisis and law enforcement was able to remove his firearms, so it very well could have saved lives."



Which one of these statements from the article is true? He was a danger for the past year? Should have been easy to demonstrate this then yes?

Anyhow keep your blinds or shades drawn and stay out of sight while armed I guess. They will be coming for open carry soon.