National SCOTUS declines 2a case re: felons

[CamoDeafie]

SCOTUS declines to take gun rights case that also challenged Whitaker appointment as acting AG

Snippet from article

"Several of the Circuit Courts and their inferior courts have reached the conclusion that felons as a class, can never be law-abiding and responsible," his attorney, Tom Goldstein, wrote in a brief asking the court to take up the case.

Well. There you have it. A declaration that previously convicted felons will forever be branded second class citizens due to being felons for any reason.

So the old saying of "all men are created equal" just don't hold true anymore then?

Its notable, because the defendant in this particular case has run for Senate seats as a Democrat ; and claims that since he has gone toward being a "law abiding citizen"; he then is entitled to a gun for self defense ....

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[mortar maggot]

If you served your time, to include probation, and out and about in public all your rights should be restored.

If it is felt you are too dangerous you should be in the big concrete building with bars on it.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i think that if you cant accept the consequence of never owning a gun again you shouldnt do the crime to begin with

 

[CamoDeafie]

The main points seem to be that because tbe crimes committed were of a "nonviolent" nature ( ) ; and since the defendant was able to run for the Senate .... it follows that there indeed should be a way for a felon to get his/her rights wholly restored, yes?
Of course there are exceptions, like the cases with violent felons such as murderers, rapists, armed robbers, and the like... and these are the ones who in my opinion... forfiet their lives and rights when they did their crimes.. be it death in prison, or death during committing these crimes, or a quick wait for a short drop (executed)

However, and this is pretty important for Oregon gun owners..
Where a State decides with the stroke of a pen, to turn law abiding gun owners into felons overnight? What then?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Please note, this is also directly related to GCA 1968 as well ; which turned felons and convicts into a second class of citizens as "prohibited persons".

For much of America's history... a criminal served his time, and became a free man with full rights, or he died either in prison (life in prison, no parole), or killed right then and there (shot by cops, executed by sheriffs, or killed by the survivors)

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

The main points seem to be that because tbe crimes committed were of a "nonviolent" nature ( ) ; and since the defendant was able to run for the Senate .... it follows that there indeed should be a way for a felon to get his/her rights wholly restored, yes?
Of course there are exceptions, like the cases with violent felons such as murderers, rapists, armed robbers, and the like... and these are the ones who in my opinion... forfiet their lives and rights when they did their crimes.. be it death in prison, or death during committing these crimes, or a quick wait for a short drop (executed)

However, and this is pretty important for Oregon gun owners..
Where a State decides with the stroke of a pen, to turn law abiding gun owners into felons overnight? What then?

Unfortunately there have been some that committed misdemeanor crimes and were upgraded to felonies due to either the times or over zealous prosecutors. That being said the goal of many in power is to deny rights based on laws that are ambiguous at best. If they can willy nilly create new laws at the stroke of a pen, we are all potentially at risk

 

[The Heretic]

Agreed, at some point in your evening or robbery, rape, and murder perhaps the thought to stop came into your mind. If not, well I could care less if that person ever has rights again, they sure didn't care about anyone elses rights.

Except that there are felonies, such as possessing a NFA firearm without an NFA stamp, that shouldn't be felonies.

 

[mortar maggot]

But so many things are felonies now a days, you easily committ several felonies a week, likely that is.

i think that if you cant accept the consequence of never owning a gun again you shouldnt do the crime to begin with

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

But so many things are felonies now a days, you easily committ several felonies a week, likely that is.

are you saying that I likely commit several felonies a week? or are you just saying in general that people unknowingly commit several felonies a week?

 

[User 1234]

If you consider how many crimes created by legislatures are felonies, especially in California and other over zealous states, it becomes hard to link a violation of many felony statutes with a propensity for violence. Not all felons were bank robbers, thieves, or rapists. What about someone whose tax planning got too aggressive and was convicted of tax evasion? Should they lose the right to self defense for life?

 

[bolus]

But so many things are felonies now a days, you easily committ several felonies a week, likely that is.

It is a felony to commit adultery in Michigan.
Michigan Legislature - Section 750.30

So is getting drunk in a bar in Alaska (once you get drunk you are required to leave)
DOC Frame Page

In Florida, it is a felony to let a helium balloon go. Imagine losing your rights for that
Man Charged With Felony for Letting Go of Balloons

 

[mortar maggot]

are you saying that I likely commit several felonies a week? or are you just saying in general that people unknowingly commit several felonies a week?

In general most people committ several felonies a week, yes there are exceptions. Have a CCW and walk into a post office?
Buy stuff online and not pay tax?
Have a gun in the car when you pick up the kid at school?

Sure, rape, murder, people know those are wrong and do it anyhow, totally different catagory. It is the little BS laws that have been implemented over the years, that are the problem

Heck I was .mil down south for a few years, look up sodomy laws, the man is always wrong, and the one committing the felony.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Don't forget that in California, you can also be charged with "felony bad housekeeping" if you're sloveny and unmotivated with keeping your domicile clean/habitable.

 

[The Heretic]

Think of it this way - someone who was convicted of a felony, but seeks to have his/her rights to own a gun restored has probably turned their life around. Otherwise they wouldn't bother - people who are repeat offenders don't give a darn about the law and would just ignore it anyway.

OTOH - I would say that someone who was convicted of a violent crime, especially repeat offenders, would maybe be disqualified, or maybe have to go to court/etc., to get their rights to own firearms restored - having to show somehow that they have reformed (e.g., they have lead a crime free life and are a good citizen for the last 20 years).

 

[Boboclown]

are you saying that I likely commit several felonies a week? or are you just saying in general that people unknowingly commit several felonies a week?

If ignorance of the law is no excuse then we are all doomed.

 

[GWS]

SCOTUS declines to take gun rights case that also challenged Whitaker appointment as acting AG


So the old saying of "all men are created equal" just don't hold true anymore then?

Its notable, because the defendant in this particular case has run for Senate seats as a Democrat ; and claims that since he has gone toward being a "law abiding citizen"; he then is entitled to a gun for self defense ....

We are created equal. If you screw up after that you have to take the consequences.

If ignorance of the law is no excuse then we are all doomed.

I wish that ignorance of the law is no excuse applied to LEO's and politicians.

 

[etrain16]

I think folks may be missing the key reason SCOTUS didn't take up this case - they declined it in part because the case was also linked to the appointment of the current acting AG - and the court didn't want to get into that kind of decision.

Remember folks, we need the right kinds of cases before SCOTUS. They need to be clean and clear cut. When SCOTUS refuses to hear these types of cases, there is often something else behind it, as was the case here. This wasn't so much about the rights of felons to own guns as it would have potentially rendered another political decision in the process. It's like congresspeople adding little riders to their bills to try and skirt something through the system. This type of crap hurts our chances. Cases need to be clean, clear and precise.

I'm just hoping a case brought by say, GOA, will eventually make it to SCOTUS that will finally clear up some of the crap we're always fighting out there regarding gun rights. And hopefully Trump will get a chance to choose RBG's replacement in the near future so maybe we can get one more solid pro-2A justice.

 

[orygun]

Where a State decides with the stroke of a pen, to turn law abiding gun owners into felons overnight? What then?

I wish I could remember the whole thing completely, but I saw a case where a man escaped conviction on a charge for failing to register a weapon because he was a felon. Seems that registering the gun violated his Fifth Amendment rights....

If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can share a better recollection, please feel free to pipe up. I've had this running around the back of my head for a while and can't remember specifics....

 

[Boboclown]

When I was in school to get my CDL I met felons I'd trust with a gun than I would trust my friend's sister and BIL. The BIL is former military but is a democrat and just as crazy as his wife.

 

[etrain16]

With regard to felons, I see it as two types: violent and non-violent. I don't have an issue, in general, with non-violent felons having a possible path back to ownership.

Violent/dangerous offenders? Stuff like rape, assault, robbery/burglary, theft, child or spouse abuse, pedophelia, kidnapping, etc, I don't see the need to ever restore gun rights.

It's not clear cut in some cases, so it makes sense, barring certain lifetime disqualifications, as I noted above, that non-violent felons be considered, on a case by case basis, to have those rights restored.