Scoping an AK

[Aero Denezol]

Years ago I tried to scope a WASR-10 using a Midwest Industries mount, and beyond the obvious problems (cheek weld, increased weight, etc.) that thing would never hold zero. My groups were still 3-5 MOA, same as with irons. For whatever reason I am now tempted to try this experiment again. Has anyone had luck scoping an AK using a side/receiver mount?

If so, what type of mount/optic combo did you use?

Thanks in advance

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[Unka-Boo]

If you are shooting cheap bulk ammo, results will be the same....

 

[spider]

Get better ammo, the brass case stuff or those S&B ones that are designed for hunting will give you better accuracy and precision.

Anything bulk ammo wise, you be just happy with hitting a torso size target anywhere on it repeatedly.

 

[Prefontaine]

I'd consider a Texas arms dogleg dust cover with a rail on top. I use one and it's rock solid.

 

[Savage Jav]

RS regulate and you cant go wrong

 

[Aero Denezol]

RS regulate and you cant go wrong

Seems like the RS Regulate AK system works in two pieces, by choosing and upper and a lower. Unless I'm reading it wrong on their website

 

[Sixsa]

Seems like the RS Regulate AK system works in two pieces, by choosing and upper and a lower. Unless I'm reading it wrong on their website

Correct, it's a two piece system usually. The first mount that slides on the rail itself, and then the other mount that goes onto that, that you can choose to fit what kind of rail size length ect you want.

 

[titsonritz]

RS regulate and you cant go wrong

Yep.

Same answer...
Side mount rail for AKM and optic choices

 

[AK0perator47]

Honestly everyone else has responded with the best solutions... bulk steel case ammo will give you the same MOA at just about every distant... I also don't think that I need a sub moa rifle... when I do it's called a bolt action tikka or something like that! Lol... I can ring steel at 600 yards with a AK master mount and steel ammo... I can also ring steel with a red dot on an ultimak

 

[The Heretic]

1) Don't expect too much. AKs are by design not precision rifles.

2) Do not use the dust cover itself as a mount for an magnifying optic. In general the dustcover will not be stable enough and solutions that try to make it stable are the wrong approach.

3) In my experience (I have scoped three different AKs), then most stable mounting system for an optic with magnification on an AK is a solid non-removable mount on the side of the receiver. The problem with the permanent non-removable solid mounts are that they interfere with the removal of the dust cover, making it harder to clear action malfunctions.

The gas piston tube mounts are better than the dust cover, but still they are usually not stable as the piston tubes usually are loosely fitted too.

The rear sight mounts are better yet, but still not as good as the permanent receiver mounts.

In my experience, no scope mount will result in making an AK as precise as the cartridge it shoots can be (the 7.62x39 can result in good precision when shot from a precise rifle - e.g., the CZ 527, and is the base cartridge case for some benchrest cartridges) - the best I ever got was 2.5-3 MOA in either 5.56, 7.62x39 0r 7.62x51 (I had Valmets in the latter and scoped one of them with a dust cover mount).

IMO it is better to go with something like a red dot, low power (preferably no more than 1-2X) prism scope (maybe with magnifier), Trijicon ACOG or dual illuminated RMR or a Meprolight M21. At most, maybe a LVPO, preferably a Scout scope, but I think even that is a bit much.

Do not expect too much.

When I was younger, with an AK, I could hit man sized targets from 500 meters 50% of the time shooting off-hand with iron sights. That would be enough to make an enemy take cover IMO and take care in approaching me; even if it was unlikely that I could hit them when they are moving around out there, I could come close enough often enough to make them not want to take the chance.

I can't do that today due to poor eye sight and not being able to hold the rifle that steady. But the AK is at best a 300 meter rifle, don't expect too much from it.

 

[Boboclown]

Biggest step to shooting an AK better, choose the most consistent ammo. Tula ammo is the worst, barnaul and golden tiger is fine. Brass case is the go to, but don't think about reloading unless you have a port buffer.

 

[Boboclown]

2) Do not use the dust cover itself as a mount for an magnifying optic. In general the dustcover will not be stable enough and solutions that try to make it stable are the wrong approach.

Zenitco and TWS has proven this to be half wrong. The issue isn't dust cover itself, its mounting system. The Zenitco B33 is attached the the handguard and is stable as long as the receiver isn't out of spec. On my wasr it has issues with vertical movement, but has no issue holding zero (thank you gravity), horizontal movement is the biggest killer. On my draco and arsenal 106, there is no movement. TWS I would assume is similar.

I liked Zenitco enough to spend the money on it three times. My .308 Vepr uses a RS regulate mount specifically for the vepr (other mounts don't fit with the RPK folding stock's "knuckle") and a my arsenal sam7 uses a midwest industries mount. No issues with any mounting options I have used.

3) In my experience (I have scoped three different AKs), then most stable mounting system for an optic with magnification on an AK is a solid non-removable mount on the side of the receiver. The problem with the permanent non-removable solid mounts are that they interfere with the removal of the dust cover, making it harder to clear action malfunctions.

The entire reasoning behind the siderail is you could take off the optic, then put it in a pouch when not in use. Then you put it back on later, and return to zero. IME a good side mount achieves this. The Russians got on the QD train before the Americans did.

 

[The Heretic]

The Valmets I shot/owned had a very strong/tight latch on the cover. The Galil/Golani I once owned had the same tight latch on the cover too. All of these were a bear to remove and replace the cover and the covers seemed to have little movement, but the Valmet I shot with a cover mount (I got a separate cover for that and it too seemed tight), still had enough movement that it had problems with scope movement; on all of these you could move the scope/POI just with recoil alone, and a slight tap on the scope itself with my hand moved the point of aim (hence the POI) too.

YMMV and maybe it doesn't apply to every single AK, but it has with the half dozen I have owned and shot over the decades.

 

[The Heretic]

Biggest step to shooting an AK better, choose the most consistent ammo. Tula ammo is the worst, barnaul and golden tiger is fine. Brass case is the go to, but don't think about reloading unless you have a port buffer.

I found at best 0.5-0.75 MOA difference between several US brands of match ammo and bulk ammo being shot in a Norinco 84S with a solid receiver mount scope. The best I ever got out of that rifle was 2.5 MOA, and that wasn't always consistent.

 

[Boboclown]

The Valmets I shot/owned had a very strong/tight latch on the cover. The Galil/Golani I once owned had the same tight latch on the cover too. All of these were a bear to remove and replace the cover and the covers seemed to have little movement, but the Valmet I shot with a cover mount (I got a separate cover for that and it too seemed tight), still had enough movement that it had problems with scope movement; on all of these you could move the scope/POI just with recoil alone, and a slight tap on the scope itself with my hand moved the point of aim (hence the POI) too.

YMMV and maybe it doesn't apply to every single AK, but it has with the half dozen I have owned and shot over the decades.

As I said its about mounting method, what causes other dust cover mounts to fail (such as the UTG ones) is that they are a dust cover only, and are only attached to the receiver the same way another dust cover is. Zenitco B33 is attached directly to the B30 or B10 handguard, which are tight to the point they have to be hammered in. Zenitco gets used by some members of the Russian special forces, who seem to have 0 issues using them. Another reason why dust cover scope mounts fail is they don't return to zero, because there is nothing to guarantee they get replaced the same exact way, again something solved by the way the B33 is attached.

The TWS dogleg replaces the rear sight, and because I'm unwilling to replace the rear sight I never tried it.

 

[Boboclown]

The attachment point of the zenitco B33. Its more of a rail and just happens to act as a dust cover.

Its as solid as the handguard that had to be hammered into the receiver.

 

[Savage Jav]

The attachment point of the zenitco B33. Its more of a rail and just happens to act as a dust cover.

Its as solid as the handguard that had to be hammered into the receiver.

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Worth the money? Im thinking of an AK 104 build

 

[Boboclown]

Worth the money? Im thinking of an AK 104 build

Worth the money and wait time getting it from Russia. On AKs that aren't Russian (and maybe Bulgarian) fitting is required. But try getting it in with a rubber mallet first, then file if absolutely necessary.

 

[titsonritz]

Zenitco is awesome stuff, the only thing that kept me from getting any was the sketchy availability and high cost.

 

[Boboclown]

They do make stuff for the military so availability isn't guaranteed. But ivantactical is a good place to get em.

Ordered through Ivan three times already.