Washington SB5174 - CPL holders must take an approved training course

[Boss]

Would be a surprise if reciprocity remained, especially if the training requirements didn't meet or exceed WA's mandated training...that just wouldn't be common sense

While training is a good thing...this seems as much as a handgun registration program as much as anything else. Seriously...say you carried different sizes/models of Glocks depending on the situation...you're going to be required to quality with all of them? Which will almost certainly entail recording the make/mode!/serial number...riiiiggghhhhttttt.

Remember, the purpose is not to help or make things better for you...They've got to put an end to all the senseless CPL crime out there...that's why the supporters speaking in the hearing in Olympia actually spoke very little on actual CPL incidents, but rather other emotionally charged examples...active shooters and negligenct discharges inside a personal residence IIRC. What does that have to do with CPLs? And as usual, when a tiny fraction makes a mistake, you don't go persecute everyone else...

Down the road, it will be 'Wouldn't it make sense to require training to purchase handguns? Like they do for rifles? That's just common sense...'

And then there'll be the FOID cards...because a handful of places require it...that's just common sense...

And so on, and so on...

Keep writing, emailing, calling, spreading the word.

Sounds like about 1/3 of the sheriffs are opposing 1639 so far...keep it up.

Boss

 

[Camelfilter]

Can you get a Utah permit without having your Washington State CPL?

From: How do I Apply for a Concealed Firearm Permit? | DPS – Criminal Identification (BCI)

"...

• Non-resident proof of permit. If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states click here. You are considered a resident of whichever state issued your ID. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply...."

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Can you get a Utah permit without having your Washington State CPL?

The wife and I took our class and applied for both years ago. The Utah application asked if you had a permit in your state and to provide the info. We did not yet and it was not a problem. We actually got our Utah permits months before our local Sheriff's Office had time to set our appointments.

If you are asking "As a Washington resident can I carry in my home state without a Washington CPL" that answer is no.

Don't forget to get an Oregon permit too, because every Liberal State wants your money.

 

[Selous Scout]

If you are asking "As a Washington resident can I carry in my home state without a Washington CPL" that answer is no.

Why not?

 

[Selous Scout]

From: How do I Apply for a Concealed Firearm Permit? | DPS – Criminal Identification (BCI)

"...

• Non-resident proof of permit. If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states click here. You are considered a resident of whichever state issued your ID. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply...."

Thanks for finding that. Looks like that may be an issue then.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Why not?

Because if you live in Washington State, they want your money for a permit. Also, you could use your Washington CPL to wave the 5 day waiting period for a pistol. Not sure what craziness you have now in 2019.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

'Keep writing, emailing, calling, spreading the word'. TOTAL waste of time, spinning wheels, etc. What is needed is RESOLVE. Fuggittabout compliance with ANY firearm laws that violate your INALIENABLE (look up the word in the dictionary) Constitutional firearm rights. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED is pretty simple to understand. BE PREPARED for the coming firestorm. REMEMBER YOUR HERITAGE. What kind of life do you want your grandkids to have? Government slaves or free citizens? NEVER FORGET those who propose these laws want to CRUSH DISSENT from you and your ilk. Use some common sense, open your eyes, grow some gonads and WAKE UP!

And when you are :
Jailed..
Fined...
Perhaps now no longer having the right to keep and bear arms...
Or shot dead by law enforcement...
All for non-compliance with "ANY firearm laws that violate your INALIENABLE (look up that word in the dictionary) Constitutional firearm rights"...
How is that going to help...?
Or give any sort of life to my grandkids...?

Coming here in a forum , which is public by the way...and posting things like :
The advocating of ignoring a law...
Spouting off with what comes across as "Internet Tough Guy BS"...
Telling folks who are pro-gun to "WAKE UP" and "grow some gonads"...
Does not help at all...in fact it can make folks ignore you and your message.

Getting back to non-compliance , going on a public forum and announcing to anyone that can read , that one is going to be breaking or ignoring a law , isn't the best of ideas.
Many folks may already be in non-compliance , but see no need to shout it off the roof top , so to speak....

All while many patriots were creating civil dissent and disturbance , rioting , taring and feathering , destroying property and such...Many other patriots who had as much heart and love for the same cause , were writing and addressing the King and Parliament ...And yes I know it took a War to free us and make our country...But my point is :
It took actions of diplomacy , civil discourse , civil disobedience and outright war , all working together to create our country.
When doing any of the above , do so smartly and with the idea of "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face."

Back to the topic at hand , regarding approved training courses...Often these types of requirements , end up as a one size fits none , type of "solution".
More importantly ...
When one is forced to pay for the privilege of exercising a Right...the Right ceases to be a Right , and becomes a privilege.
Andy

 

[ATCclears]

Another societal conundrum:

The same people who insist that buying a gun at a store (which at a minimum requires a government-issued ID and background check) is too easy will also tell you that requiring an ID to vote is an impossibly high hurdle to expect average people to overcome.

 

[WowReactsOnly]

And if there's a training requirement for each firearm then I won't be renewing my WA CPL. Makes a lot more sense to get a Utah permit.

Hopefully the utah permit still counts here. I have the FL so if things work out that may cover me but then again this is hoping these folks have our best interest which they do not

 

[WowReactsOnly]

It's in the substitute bill SSB5174. I'm guessing that supersedes the original?

(3)(a)(ix) Live-fire shooting exercises on a firing range that include a demonstration by the applicant of safe handling of, and shooting proficiency with, each firearm that the applicant is applying to be licensed to carry.

Summary of Bill (First Substitute): In order to obtain or renew a concealed pistol license, a person must provide proof that he or she has completed a recognized firearms safety training program within the last five years. At a minimum, the training must include eight hours of instruction on:

• Ÿ basic firearm safety rules;
  
  
• Ÿ firearms and children, including safe storage;
  
  
• Ÿ firearms and suicide prevention;
  
  
• Ÿ safe storage of firearms to prevent unauthorized access and use;
  
  
• Ÿ safe handling of firearms;
  
  
• Ÿ state and federal firearms laws, including prohibited firearm transfers;
  
  
• Ÿ state laws pertaining to the use of deadly force for self-defense;
  
  
• Ÿ techniques for managing violent confrontations, including conflict resolution; and
  
  
• Ÿ live-fire shooting exercises that include a demonstration of shooting proficiency with
  
  each firearm the applicant is applying to be licensed to carry.

I think we may still be clear as the gov website with the substitute does not show this bill.

 

[bentoncity]

In WA, things may be a bit different. The state issued the bad shooter a license, the state may now have skin in the game.

Things are taking another route.. Brad Klippert introduced HOUSE BILL 1511.
Read first time 01/23/19. Referred to Committee on Civil Rights & Judiciary.
What 1511 does is absolve the state from training and puts the legal liability on others. It also exempts all current and/or past LEO's. Klippert is a LEO in Benton County and used to have common sense. Apparently the water/food or something in Oly has warped his brains.

The training must be
[this red text is stricken thru which removes the fed/state/county/local requirements]

((sponsored by a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training. The proof of training shall be in the form of a certification that states under the penalty of perjury the training included the minimum requirements)) ​

provided by a business or organization that is licensed and insured, or bonded, to provide such training, and issues proof of training in the way of a certificate that states the student name, training date, and authorizing signature of the training provider. (ii) The firearm safety training requirement in this subsection (2)(a) does not apply to sales or transfers of semiautomatic assault rifles to law enforcement officers or retired law enforcement officers who provide proof to the dealer that they are or were employed as commissioned law enforcement officers of a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency;

Dan

 

[bikemutt]

And if there's a training requirement for each firearm then I won't be renewing my WA CPL. Makes a lot more sense to get a Utah permit.

I can't swear to this but, if UT is like OR, one of the prerequisites to being issued a non-resident permit is having a WA permit. I think I had to have my WA permit to get the AZ permit as well, been a while though, I could be wrong.

 

[WowReactsOnly]

Is there any way for them to make our current washington CHLs void or should they remain valid until expiration?

 

[Boss]

Well, it would be common sense to just void them all...you've probably suddenly become an incompetent klutz, no matter how much training and experience you may have...

For safety and stuff...

Boss

 

[SIG34]

Very vague

Give me my CPL thanks

 

[Boss]

^^Sorry, you didn't receive their training... back of the line.

Boss

 

[Clarkston_cz]

I'll show up with 60 rounds rounds of Cowboy ammo and my Derringer.

Shoot left handed, as my wrist will be in a brace or recovering from surgery.

Take all day or a number of days to qualify.

 

[Selous Scout]

I'll show up with 60 rounds rounds of Cowboy ammo and my Derringer.

Shoot left handed, as my wrist will be in a brace or recovering from surgery.

Take all day or a number of days to qualify.

Yes! That's what I was thinking. Something blackpowder to make a smoky mess. Also an AR pistol. I think you'll need to if you intend to keep one loaded in your car, correct? I bet the dems didn't think about that one. Bring every pistol you have.

 

[Boss]

^^That's all well and good until they mandate a COF like 5 shots in 10 seconds or something along those lines. Then you fail...

There's a whole lot of questions about training...especially for a CPL...are they going to be covering laws on the judicious use of force, AOJ, real world scenarios? If so, who's going to be doing the training? Commissioned LE? Prosecutors?? If you act within the guidance of the training, are you going be free from any charges (the answer to this is known of course)? There's probably going to be a whole lot of unofficial 'It depends...'

You can bet there'll be a limit of like 1, maybe 2 handguns allowed per class. Because spending $$ an an entire day at such a course is just super convenient...

If this were to become law, renewals should be abbreviated, like your driver's license. Something like go in, go straight to the live fire exercise, pass, go home. Same thing if you can show previous training...NRA, recognized training facility (FAS, Insights, Thunder Ranch, Gunsight, Frontsight, whatever).​

But that would be the type of common sense they absolutely won't want to go for...

Ignorant people enacting laws

Boss

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I just wonder...
Why "fix" , what ain't broken...?
Just how many Washington CPL holders are out there causing a problem...?

I know , I know...it ain't about fixing or safety...in the long run its all about making it damn near impossible to keep and bear arms....
Andy