Washington Sale of Semi Auto Rifle From WA to OR. Legal?

[fredball]

Yes it is but Washington seller will need to bring gun to Oregon and Have Oregon FFL do the transfer

P'S be sure to bring and enlarged copy of your Washington drivers License with you to the Oregon FFL

Just makes their job eaiser

 

[gmerkt]

Why would an OR FFL care what WA says? WA cannot tell those in OR what they can or cannot do in OR. Yes, the OR FFL would ask for the seller's ID so he or she can show where they got the firearm and put that information in their bound book.

Well, I'm thinking they might just want to play it safe to avoid an injunction against them brought about by Wash. state AG, which is possible. Just a thought. I'd read on here (IIRC) that some border area Ore. dealers were pondering on not doing such transfers. Or maybe during the time since 1639 came into effect, they've seen there are no consequences?

I wasn't able to re-quote this, but lets go back to it:

"Does Initiative 1639 prohibit a federal firearms licensee (FFL) in Washington from transferring a semiautomatic assault rifle to an FFL in another state for its sale to a non-Washington resident?

No. Initiative 1639's amendment to RCW 9.41.124 prevents Washington FFLs from selling semiautomatic assault rifles directly to residents of another state. But nothing in the Initiative prohibits an FFL from transferring a semiautomatic assault rifle to an FFL in a different state, consistent with federal law—a practice long utilized for interstate sales of pistols and other types of firearms. For guidance on the rules and procedures governing interstate FFL-to-FFL firearm transfers, licensed firearm dealers should contact the Seattle Field Division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms at (206) 204-3205 or"

I'm still confused. If the above applies, what's the basis for the big lawsuit? The one that has been mentioned several times by the member here who is a gun dealer across the river, forgive me I forget his name. According to him and stated on this forum more than once, 1639 prohibits Wash. dealers from shipping semi-auto rifles out of state.

The quote above does not mention private individuals shipping semi-auto rifles out of state. Which is legal under federal law. Is this an oversight because most non-gun people would have no idea this was legal. Or is the mention of "a practice long utilized for interstate sales of pistols and other types of firearms" supposed to imply that shipping semi-auto rifles as we would handguns is required de jure?

"But nothing in the Initiative prohibits an FFL from transferring a semiautomatic assault rifle to an FFL in a different state" There is also nothing in 1639 that specifically prohibits a private seller from shipping a semi-auto rifle out of state to a dealer. And nothing that says it has to be done "like a handgun." At least that I could find.

This initiative that became law isn't written clearly enough for me. Yes, there are a lot of details related to this subject. Which should've been researched more carefully but I'm sure haste and motivation were issues in its writing. Supposedly, if something isn't written into a law, then it's not covered. If it isn't prohibited, it's permitted sort of thing. In this matter, that may not be how some people are doing things.

So this is why, on this very forum, I've gotten both answers to, "Is it permitted for a private person to ship a semi-auto rifle to an out-of-state FFL dealer." Really.

 

[JedB]

1639 prohibited the sale of Semi Autos to out of state buyers.

RCW 9.41.124: Purchasing of rifles and shotguns by nonresidents.

app.leg.wa.gov

So essentially, out of state sales need to be handled like handguns.

Both examples below are governed by the ATF rule on interstate sales of firearms. (Umbrella)

While your statement would be accurate if the buyer was from Oregon and the purchase transaction happened in Washington. Washington's rules (1639) would govern.
If the transaction happened in Oregon, it would be governed by Oregon's rules (not as restrictive).

 

[JedB]

If I understand that, I would need my FFL to ship it to his FFL,
What if I just take a drive across the river and meet him at an FFL in Oregon?

Then ATF (interstate transfer) and Oregon's rules would apply, since the transaction is happening within Oregon.

 

[slimmer13]

Both examples below are governed by the ATF rule on interstate sales of firearms. (Umbrella)

While your statement would be accurate if the buyer was from Oregon and the purchase transaction happened in Washington. Washington's rules (1639) would govern.
If the transaction happened in Oregon, it would be governed by Oregon's rules (not as restrictive).

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but the transfer has to happen in OR.

This isn't complicated. Like I said in the first response to this thread, yes the sale can happen, but per WA law it must be handled like a handgun.

Federal interstate transfer laws apply either way, which say an FFL transfer must take place. WA went a step further and said that an out of state buyer can't conduct the transfer at a WA FFL.

Hope this helps.

 

[JedB]

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but the transfer has to happen in OR.

This isn't complicated. Like I said in the first response to this thread, yes the sale can happen, but per WA law it must be handled like a handgun.

Federal interstate transfer laws apply either way, which say an FFL transfer must take place. WA went a step further and said that an out of state buyer can't conduct the transfer at a WA FFL.

Hope this helps.

Ahh, that part I did not know about 1639. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Ferryman]

So the nephew of a friend wants to buy my Garand. He lives in OR while I live in WA.
Is there any law prohibiting my selling that rifle across state lines?

Well, now that you've created a record of the sale on the internet....

 

[coop44]

So I crimp the gas tube and it's not semi anymore.

 

[BAJ475]

So I crimp the gas tube and it's not semi anymore.

What does being a semi-auto have to do with it? It is a transfer of a firearm between residents of different states. Must go through an FFL in the recipients state.

 

[The Heretic]

What does being a semi-auto have to do with it? It is a transfer of a firearm between residents of different states. Must go through an FFL in the recipients state.

My vague understanding is that in WA state they have extra regs/rules/laws about the transfer of semi-autos.

I have held though that a given state cannot regulate (for the most part) what happens in another state, even when it involves a resident of the given state.

OTOH - the ATF holds that some transfers must be legal in both states - but I believe that applies to the recipient, not the transferor. E.G., if you are a resident of WA state and you want to buy a firearm in Orygun, then you must comply with the WA state and OR state rules/laws for that transfer.

May a licensee sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another state? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a state other than the state in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s state of...

www.atf.gov

In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

 

[TCOV]

My vague understanding is that in WA state they have extra regs/rules/laws about the transfer of semi-autos.

I have held though that a given state cannot regulate (for the most part) what happens in another state, even when it involves a resident of the given state.

OTOH - the ATF holds that some transfers must be legal in both states - but I believe that applies to the recipient, not the transferor. E.G., if you are a resident of WA state and you want to buy a firearm in Orygun, then you must comply with the WA state and OR state rules/laws for that transfer.

May a licensee sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another state? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a state other than the state in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s state of...

www.atf.gov

In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

This has been discussed before but there is a RCW that allows a WA resident to purchase a long arm including semiautomatic in another state under the federal laws just as before I1639 went into effect. I1639 only effects transfers in WA. Since transfer of a semiautomatic rifle to someone under 21 is illegal in WA it is also illegal to transfer to someone who is under 21 and a WA resident in another state. Learn to read ALL the RCWs

 

[BAJ475]

My vague understanding is that in WA state they have extra regs/rules/laws about the transfer of semi-autos.

No doubt that they do. The questions is whether their laws, rules and regulations have any application to the question posed by the OP.

I have held though that a given state cannot regulate (for the most part) what happens in another state, even when it involves a resident of the given state.

OTOH - the ATF holds that some transfers must be legal in both states - but I believe that applies to the recipient, not the transferor. E.G., if you are a resident of WA state and you want to buy a firearm in Orygun, then you must comply with the WA state and OR state rules/laws for that transfer.

May a licensee sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another state? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a state other than the state in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s state of...

www.atf.gov

In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

Agree 100%

 

[The Heretic]

This has been discussed before but there is a RCW that allows a WA resident to purchase a long arm including semiautomatic in another state under the federal laws just as before I1639 went into effect. I1639 only effects transfers in WA. Since transfer of a semiautomatic rifle to someone under 21 is illegal in WA it is also illegal to transfer to someone who is under 21 and a WA resident in another state. Learn to read ALL the RCWs

I don't pretend to read the RCWs anymore. I left WA 9 years ago and I do not follow those laws anymore or engage in a detailed discussion of them. My post was just about how federal law affects those transfers and the fact that in this case, there is a caveat in the federal regs that the transfer must be legal in both states.

In practice, I suspect that most Orygun FFLs do not worry about or follow WA state laws regarding firearm transfers. I have not heard of any problems between the ATF and Orygun FFLs or WA state and Orygun FFLs, with regards to long gun transfers by Orygun FFLs to WA state residents.

In the case of this thread and the OP, that is academic, the question was about a WA resident transferring to an OR resident. Therefore, even more so, it is the Oregon and federal laws that are much more relevant. I strongly doubt that WA state is concerned with WA state residents selling long guns in other states.

As far as I am concerned, the question has been asked and answered - many times - in this thread and many many others. Indeed, I have more than once suggested that we put up a sticky about these questions. The ATF has FAQs that cover it, and I refer to them and cite the Orygun ORS time and time again, answering the same questions over and over again.

We could probably close this thread as I doubt there is much more that needs to be discussed.