Sad Day, two historic planes collide mid air!

[Ura-Ki]

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[TTSX]

Woah. A sight that hasn't been seen for 70 years or more. Any survivors?

 

[HotRodGuy]

I'd say not likely. Too low and happened too fast for anyone to bail and a crash from that height with that much metal isn't conducive to retaining life.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Wow that is really sad. Strangely yesterday b-17s kept popping up on YouTube I think it was. Don't know why. One was in the museum called "be back soon" or something like that. If it was that one I will be freaking out. Too bad for the crew and pilot. Also so many years and hours to restore those things by so many people makes it doubly tragic.

Edit: correction, the one I saw was called "I'll be around" and is listed as on static display.

B-17 Surviving Aircraft

www.airplanes-online.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Looks like at least 2 fighters and 2 bombers in the air at 0:57 mark of this video. Texas Raiders is the b17 name.

B-17 Flying Fortress Texas Raiders

www.airplanes-online.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Here it is at air show on Oct 30 2022. Lots of cool re-enactments going on but that is a hell of a lot of planes in the air at the same time.

Skip to about 4:30 mark for renactment stuff

Close formation with fighters in last years show apparently.

One news report said the other plane was a bell p-63

P-63 Kingcobra - CAF Wings Over Dallas

wingsoverdallas.org

 

[Ura-Ki]

Looks like the P-39 lost Visual/Situational awareness and stuffed it right in the middle of the B-17! Prayers to all souls aboard both machine's, they didn't stand a chance!

 

[Provincial]

Recent events have given a glimpse into the Warbird scene. Unfortunately, it seems to have evolved into a sort of "Good Old Boy's" club, where pilots are chosen on personal connections (sometimes just for hanging around the operation) and maintenance is put off for lack of finances or competent personnel.

The P-63 pilot acted in an irresponsible and reckless manner, and any organization that put him in command of a high-performance aircraft needs to be overhauled, from top to bottom.

Irregardless of the loss of life, the destruction of rare and irreplaceable aircraft is unforgivable. The Collings Foundation lost a B-17 in 2019 to poor maintenance. Now this.

 

[made in china]

I live near Paine Field. We see those old warbirds all the time.

And it pisses me off that they would put the few remaining airframes in risky situations so frequently. Irreplaceable equipment, irreplaceable talent and lives.

I love these old aircraft, heck, as soon as the volunteer program reopens, I'm going to volunteer to work on these machines.

But, they need to be flown conservatively and alone in protected airspace. Even here at Paine Field they frequently fly these aircraft in close formation. I have always thought that was irresponsible. Clear the airspace and keep lots of distance from other aircraft.

How many airframes have we lost in the last 20 years to accidents? How many are left?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Recent events have given a glimpse into the Warbird scene. Unfortunately, it seems to have evolved into a sort of "Good Old Boy's" club, where pilots are chosen on personal connections (sometimes just for hanging around the operation) and maintenance is put off for lack of finances or competent personnel.

The P-63 pilot acted in an irresponsible and reckless manner, and any organization that put him in command of a high-performance aircraft needs to be overhauled, from top to bottom.

Irregardless of the loss of life, the destruction of rare and irreplaceable aircraft is unforgivable. The Collings Foundation lost a B-17 in 2019 to poor maintenance. Now this.

Too early to say for sure, it's going to take the NTSB a while to release it's finding, so we won't know for sure until then!

My observations are:
The Pilot of the P-63 may have had a mechanical and needed to turn inside the B-17 to shorten the approach to land, Don't know, but he was smokin along well over the speed of the B-17! He was supposed to be in an outer left hand pattern well outside of the Bombers, and higher, which he wasn't, and he may have realized he was closing with the Bomber and tried to turn out, but it was far too late! Ether way, he lost visual/situational awareness and the collision was the result! I also question the very distinct speed differences of all the aircraft involved in that flight, as well as operating such aircraft in close proximity to each other, THAT"S on the Air Boss and the Planners, and ultimately the FAA for approving that flight plan! Assuming pilots have military training in formation flying doesn't cut it, and no matter how experienced the pilot, you must still rate for the flight you are attempting, and that's also on the FAA!

I agree with your observation of the "Good Ol Boys Club" I saw it first hand with both Bomber 9 oh 9 ( Collins Foundation) and a year later with Sentimental Journey ( Confederated Airforce), both Crews and maint. personal were VERY rude and obtuse toward visitors, and as we saw with 9 oh 9, the Pilot in Command believed it was his own personal aircraft and nobody was going to tell him what to do, how to fly, or what book procedures to follow, he was King and that was his and his alone! It was his extreme arrogance that doomed them all and destroyed that piece of history forever! I met him on their last visit to Salem a few weeks before that fateful day, and he was ever so full of him self, much the same way as the Pilot and First Officer of Sentimental Journey the next year, Super Arrogant!
Both "Foundations" Have destroyed Many historical aircraft over the years, the worst was the B-26 Marauder, the ONLY flying example anywhere in the world, they have crashed B-25's and A-26's as well as a number of single engine fighter types, including the P-40 I had volunteered so much of my time restoring, which royally pissed me off to no end and I quit the next day!

 

[Cavedweller]

The show is a reenactment of the attack on Pearl Harbor. 3rd video below shows the complete show without the accident. Might be a different time/location. Not sure.

I agree with your observation of the "Good Ol Boys Club" I saw it first hand with both Bomber 9 oh 9 ( Collins Foundation) and a year later with Sentimental Journey ( Confederated Airforce), both Crews and maint. personal were VERY rude and obtuse toward visitors, and as we saw with 9 oh 9, the Pilot in Command believed it was his own personal aircraft and nobody was going to tell him what to do, how to fly, or what book procedures to follow, he was King and that was his and his alone! It was his extreme arrogance that doomed them all and destroyed that piece of history forever! I met him on their last visit to Salem a few weeks before that fateful day, and he was ever so full of him self, much the same way as the Pilot and First Officer of Sentimental Journey the next year, Super Arrogant!

Have to disagree with you on this. I met the crew of the Sentimental Journey when they were in Salem in the summer of '21. Found them to be quite friendly and accommodating. Good people.

 

[titsonritz]

@Moderators can we get a thread merge on aisle 3?

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...lision-at-dallas-airshow.431289/#post-3424040

 

[sobo]

Woah. A sight that hasn't been seen for 70 years or more. Any survivors?

No. There were five in the B-17 and the single pilot in the P-63. All six died in the crash.
Both aircraft were operated by the American Airpower Heritage Flying Museum, from this article.
RIP, Aviators...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Pretty good video on the crash. Suggest skipping to the 13:08 mark as it's fairly long.

 

[Aero Denezol]

The Collings Foundation lost a B-17 in 2019 to poor maintenance. Now this.

Yes, Nine-O-Nine which was beautifully restored inside and out. I toured this aircraft in Corvallis maybe 15 years ago. Texas Raiders was also in Corvallis in 1990 (I believe) along with the Tora! Tora! demo team, an extremely rare F7F Tigercat and some others.

Have to disagree with you on this. I met the crew of the Sentimental Journey when they were in Salem in the summer of '21. Found them to be quite friendly and accommodating. Good people.

I used to go see Sentimental Journey at Falcon Field in Mesa when I lived there many years ago. Nice little CAF museum too. It was all very professional. They also had several OV-10 Broncos in various states of disrepair which I found fascinating, having grown up around so many Vietnam vets.

We've had some interesting Warbirds come through this area. I think my favorite was a former Coastal Command PBY-6a that stopped in Salem 3 years ago. That one had sunk a U-Boat during WWII.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

l used to go see Sentimental Journey at Falcon Field in Mesa when I lived there many years ago.

I remember crawling around inside that one as a kid at air shows.

There is a green one in madras OR but you can't go inside it (as far as I know) but you can walk under the open Bombay which shows a lot of the inside. Madras is a cool museum. They used to do rides but I don't know if they do anymore.

 

[made in china]

I used to go see Sentimental Journey at Falcon Field in Mesa when I lived there many years ago. Nice little CAF museum too. It was all very professional.

We're you in Mesa back when Pioneer Park had the fighter jet and train?

 

[Aero Denezol]

We're you in Mesa back when Pioneer Park had the fighter jet and train?

I never saw that one!

At the time I lived in Chandler and there was an F-86D at the park in Chandler.. And I remember an A-7 Corsair II near Papago Park.. and an F-101 Voodoo on the 8 headed to San Diego. Arizona was a cool place for stuff like that. I would stop to admire all of them.. much to the annoyance of anyone who was riding with me. Lol.

Arizona has changed since I left. I'm sure some woke SJW is trying to figure out how to take all those jets down and replace it with sh*tty art.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I never saw that one!

At the time I lived in Chandler and there was an F-86D at the park in Chandler.. And I remember an A-7 Corsair II near Papago Park.. and an F-101 Voodoo on the 8 headed to San Diego. Arizona was a cool place for stuff like that. I would stop to admire all of them.. much to the annoyance of anyone who was riding with me. Lol.

Arizona has changed since I left. I'm sure some woke SJW is trying to figure out how to take all those jets down and replace it with sh*tty art.

We used to Visit family in Phoenix way back when I was a Kid, and we always talked the folks to taking us to Falcon Field where the Warbird museum was, they had some of the coolest warbirds including the FW 190 D-9 that is now in Seattle! Back then, they would actually take those birds out and fly them, not any more!

 

[made in china]

I never saw that one!

At the time I lived in Chandler and there was an F-86D at the park in Chandler.. And I remember an A-7 Corsair II near Papago Park.. and an F-101 Voodoo on the 8 headed to San Diego. Arizona was a cool place for stuff like that. I would stop to admire all of them..

F9F-5 USN 125316

I used to play on it as a kid in the 80's, we had unrestricted access on it and inside it. It had concrete poured in some areas to make a floor.
The train that was next to it was recently restored, and oddly enough, you can still go in the train and hurt yourself!

125316 was restored! I can't believe it, don't know if it can fly, but I'm shocked they restored it, it was so full of kid piss, bubble gum and concrete, amazing to see it now, may need to go on a journey....

Aerial Visuals - Airframe Dossier - Grumman F9F-5P Panther, s/n 125316 USN

This Aerial Visuals page provides airframe history details of a specific airframe from the airframe database.

www.aerialvisuals.ca