Sad Day, two historic planes collide mid air!

[sobo]

View attachment 1312782

F9F-5 USN 125316

I used to play on it as a kid in the 80's, we had unrestricted access on it and inside it. It had concrete poured in some areas to make a floor.
The train that was next to it was recently restored, and oddly enough, you can still go in the train and hurt yourself!

125316 was restored! I can't believe it, don't know if it can fly, but I'm shocked they restored it, it was so full of kid piss, bubble gum and concrete, amazing to see it now, may need to go on a journey....

Aerial Visuals - Airframe Dossier - Grumman F9F-5P Panther, s/n 125316 USN

This Aerial Visuals page provides airframe history details of a specific airframe from the airframe database.

www.aerialvisuals.ca

Why did they change the Bureau Number? It's still the same aircraft...
I was under the (perhaps mistaken??) assumption that the BN stays with an aircraft until a hull loss.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Why did they change the Bureau Number? It's still the same aircraft...
I was under the (perhaps mistaken??) assumption that the BN stays with an aircraft until a hull loss.

Normally, the BN is a physical build plate afixed to the bird, usually in the gear well, or other sorta protected area, sometimes, the Tail Numbers are altered to replicate another airframe for various reasons, but as long as the BN remains intact, there is proof of it's origins! I have seen this countless times, many of histories greatest were lost, some in battle, some to the recyclers, and so, whom ever holds stewardship decides if and how to display them the way they want! Take "Old Crow" for example, the real bird was sold for scrap at the end of the war, but historical demand and desires has the current bird replicating the original, though they are several hundred apart in Build number and build block!

 

[Ura-Ki]

The one that really offends me is a P-40Echo that currently replicates a "Flying Tigers" machine, but was built shortly after that point in History, though very close! The airframe in question actually served in the Mediterranean Theater, North Africa Campaign, and then across to the Italian Front! It should be displayed as original, where it's historical pedigree is honored!
What's crazy, is more P-40s remain, and most saw serious action, and for far longer then all the other more contemporary types, something that should be recognized and celebrated!

 

[Provincial]

This fellow has a Youtube channel that often examines aircraft accidents. He is a professional pilot, and as you will see in this video, had a professional relationship with the pilot of the B-17.

As I suspected, the plan for this airshow was flawed. While the accident wasn't inevitable, it was predictable when you consider that the plan put aircraft of mixed speed and performance at the same altitude and in a relatively small airspace.

blancolirio is the name of the Youtube channel.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This fellow has a Youtube channel that often examines aircraft accidents. He is a professional pilot, and as you will see in this video, had a professional relationship with the pilot of the B-17.

As I suspected, the plan for this airshow was flawed. While the accident wasn't inevitable, it was predictable when you consider that the plan put aircraft of mixed speed and performance at the same altitude and in a relatively small airspace.

blancolirio is the name of the Youtube channel.

Duplicate of post #14 in this thread.

 

[sobo]

Duplicate of post #14 in this thread.

Thought I'd seen that video before, and that s'plains it...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Off topic but not worth starting a new thread (says 1 hour ago). That would be freaky to be in that plane.

Also a p63 air show crash from 14 years ago. Seems like an awfully low altitude to try that manuever.

Edit: looks like it was 2001, they had 2 accidents in 2 days. This video shows another angle of the p63 crash.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Unrelated other than a warbird and in the same state. Says posted 2 hours ago.

Kind of seems like maybe pilot thought he was on the ground and started to "taxi" forward but was still in the air maybe? Don't know anything about these planes. Maybe ground effect (not sure if that is correct term)? But seems like that would have happened a gazillion times already if it was ground effect.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Unrelated other than a warbird and in the same state. Says posted 2 hours ago.

Kind of seems like maybe pilot thought he was on the ground and started to "taxi" forward but was still in the air maybe? Don't know anything about these planes. Maybe ground effect (not sure if that is correct term)? But seems like that would have happened a gazillion times already if it was ground effect.

Looks like a loss of thrust/control, and the pilot decided not to try and ride it out and bailed! Things went south around 30 feet off the ground, ether sucked something into the fan behind the pilot, or the engine let go, hard to tell, but the big cloud of white smoke tells me the engine blew! There is a fire suppression system on board, looks like that also triggered automatically right before the pilot bailed out! Will be interesting to hear what went south! If there was mechanical beforehand, he should have attempted a normal wheel landing, so I'm thinking it was an outside influence, maybe fodded it!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Early video from the YouTube plane crash guy speculates that lift fan in front failed. Makes sense when you look at the diagram and video, continuous thrust from the rear and wing ports but nothing holding it up in front.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Looks like a loss of thrust/control, and the pilot decided not to try and ride it out and bailed! Things went south around 30 feet off the ground, ether sucked something into the fan behind the pilot, or the engine let go, hard to tell, but the big cloud of white smoke tells me the engine blew! There is a fire suppression system on board, looks like that also triggered automatically right before the pilot bailed out! Will be interesting to hear what went south! If there was mechanical beforehand, he should have attempted a normal wheel landing, so I'm thinking it was an outside influence, maybe fodded it!

Re FOD, it does look like they had problems with that in 2014. Maybe that killed the lift fan, especially as it was so low to the ground when it happened. If so, I wonder if they will restrict vertical landing to areas they know are clean going forward.

DOT&E Finds Potential Catastrophic F-35B STOVL System Failure - Defense Daily

A new Defense Department report found the F-35B’s short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) system could suffer catastrophic failure due to

www.defensedaily.com

 

[Ura-Ki]

Re FOD, it does look like they had problems with that in 2014. Maybe that killed the lift fan, especially as it was so low to the ground when it happened. If so, I wonder if they will restrict vertical landing to areas they know are clean going forward.

DOT&E Finds Potential Catastrophic F-35B STOVL System Failure - Defense Daily

A new Defense Department report found the F-35B’s short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) system could suffer catastrophic failure due to

www.defensedaily.com

The video may show ( hard to really make it out) a goose getting sucked into the forward fan, it's a little iffy, BUT, that would do it!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The video may show ( hard to really make it out) a goose getting sucked into the forward fan, it's a little iffy, BUT, that would do it!

Ah, he goosed it. We used to say that when off roading. "If in doubt, goose it!"

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Airboss f*cked it up big time. Disorganized and poorly coordinated. One guy doing everything and ends up have planes criss cross each other at the same altitude.

 

[Provincial]

What concerns me is that the pilots apparently didn't understand the danger the air boss was putting them in. When you put that many airplanes in a confined area, the whole thing has to be choreographed in advance, and everyone needs to understand where they will be in relation to all the others. The lack of vertical separation was a red flag. The crossing flight patterns was another red flag. Combined, the fighter flight leader was negligent in not pulling his flight up and out of the melee after receiving such a hazardous order.

If the controller orders you to fly into a mountain, do you follow that order?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Beechcraft with engine failure tries to land on the road and ends up landing on top of a semi. Only minor injuries to pilot and no injuries to semi driver. Sounds like this happened yesterday.

 

[Provincial]

Beechcraft with engine failure tries to land on the road and ends up landing on top of a semi. Only minor injuries to pilot and no injuries to semi driver. Sounds like this happened yesterday.

I see the Oregon Legislature responding to this by introducing two bills:

The Micro-Managing factions bill would require drivers to monitor the airspace behind them and yield right-of-way to landing aircraft.

The Ban-everything faction bill would make landing a fossil-fuel-powered aircraft on a public highway a felony, even if the landing was the result of engine failure.

 

[gmerkt]

We have Paine Field in my county. Before the Covid era, it was kind of a center of Warbird activity. Museums, resto facilities, etc. Two or three B-25's taking off fairly regularly, scheduled air shows, etc. I haven't noticed much of that since Covid. Maybe it will pick back up again. BUT: I've had my thoughts about this kind of activity.

1. The craft are all old. I don't care how well taken care of they are, they are still old.

2. Pilot experience. Nearly all pilots who flew these in their prime are long gone. Those were the guys who had lots of hours in the craft. And flying a warbird isn't the same as flying a Cessna.

3. Pilot mentality. I've wondered how many licensed but low hours pilots cherish the thought of getting checked out in a warbird, so they can say they have. Seems like a risk factor to me.

So for these reasons, I've kinda half expected a splash down in this area but it hasn't happened in any fatal, spectacular way yet.

 

[Provincial]

Years ago an aviation journalist talked himself into the seat of a P-38 at the Tillamook Air Museum. He got too slow and spun it in, resulting in the loss of one journalist and an irreplaceable aircraft.

This is not an activity conducive to a "Good 'ol Boy" mentality.

 

[made in china]

We have Paine Field in my county. Before the Covid era, it was kind of a center of Warbird activity. Museums, resto facilities, etc. Two or three B-25's taking off fairly regularly, scheduled air shows, etc. I haven't noticed much of that since Covid. Maybe it will pick back up again. BUT: I've had my thoughts about this kind of activity.

1. The craft are all old. I don't care how well taken care of they are, they are still old.

2. Pilot experience. Nearly all pilots who flew these in their prime are long gone. Those were the guys who had lots of hours in the craft. And flying a warbird isn't the same as flying a Cessna.

3. Pilot mentality. I've wondered how many licensed but low hours pilots cherish the thought of getting checked out in a warbird, so they can say they have. Seems like a risk factor to me.

So for these reasons, I've kinda half expected a splash down in this area but it hasn't happened in any fatal, spectacular way yet.

I live next to Paine Field, and I always get an uneasy feeling when they were flying the old warbirds so frequently. I love those aircraft, and I strongly believe they should be maintained in flying condition, but every weekend? I feel they should be flown more sparingly..... it's only a matter of time before one augers in to someone's house.....

Do you remember when that airplane crashed into the traffic signal on Mukilteo Speedway, at the NWC where the Arco gas station is.....?
The street name sign is still burned from that accident.....