Russia invades the Ukraine ..

[Grunwald]

I support the President in his actions toward this situation, working with the free world, unilateral military involvement makes no sense at all.
But you know, if Obama did do a military action, most of you would be against that, because whatever he does, or doesn't do, is automatically wrong.

And you ought to be ashamed of that!

Do you seriously think there is such a thing as "the free world"?
Go to Canada and publish an anti gay or anti Muslim article and you'll learn really quickly that you cannot do that. Go to your choice of any European country and there are a whole slew of things you are not allowed to do. You have relative freedom in that you can live without worrying about your safety as long as you do not step out of line. In the US your leash is quite long, but make no mistake about it, you are still on a leash. They do let you bark quite a bit though so enjoy it.

 

[bugeye]

You had forgotten the /sarc tag

Nope, if you have examples that prove my statement wrong please 'school me.

Stick to the examples above, whatever they were.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

You know what freaks me out more than war..


A 7.62x39 ammo shortage, price jump or all out unavailability.

 

[Norm0931]

This could have been a nefarious plot to ban the important of Russian and Ukrainian Firearms and Ammunition.

 

[Chee-to]

Unless it was ratified by congress there is no treaty, just some promises made by another lying politician.

You're right ......Russia broke their promise to keep hands off, why should the United States keep theirs....??

Under the treaty, the signatories offered Ukraine "security assurances" in exchange for its adhesion to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum bundled together a set of assurances that Ukraine already held from the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) Final Act, United Nations Charter and Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Ukrainian government nevertheless found it politically valuable to have these assurances in a Ukraine-specific document. [7] [8]

The Budapest Memorandum was negotiated as a political agreement. It refers to assurances, not defined, but less than a military guarantee of intervention. According to Stephen MacFarlane, a professor of international relations "It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine.[/B]

 

[bugeye]

Do you seriously think there is such a thing as "the free world"?
Go to Canada and publish an anti gay or anti Muslim article and you'll learn really quickly that you cannot do that. Go to your choice of any European country and there are a whole slew of things you are not allowed to do. You have relative freedom in that you can live without worrying about your safety as long as you do not step out of line. In the US your leash is quite long, but make no mistake about it, you are still on a leash. They do let you bark quite a bit though so enjoy it.

I used the phrase 'Free World in it's cold war sense here, since this term points to the European Countries most concerned with this incursion (with the exception of the Ukraine), it seemed a good choice. Going any deeper than this sense was not required or desired.

Having rules about freedom is essential, otherwise freedom is only anarchy. Lenny Bruce did a comedy routine about the first civilization, they agreed to eat in area a, sleep in area b, and poop in area c, even though that is all the rules they needed, even these proved to be unenforceable, so they had to take the next step and create the cops. It's been all downhill from there!

Still there are huge differences in the lives of the public in Canada or Germany vs. say Myanmar, or North Korea.
I'm free enough with the limiting factor being lack of dough. As a matter of fact, I'd like to reduce the freedom of some others, like human signs that jump out in front of my car on busy streets to urgently tell me there is a furniture sale, or I'd like open season on fools with absurdly loud car stereos and appalling taste in music, and on top of that I want the 'taste maker's that convinced so many dumb kids to put annoying, tinny exhaust systems on their econo-boxes in order to be cool, publicly shot on reality TV!

 

[Riot]

You're right ......Russia broke their promise to keep hands off, why should the United States keep theirs....??

Under the treaty, the signatories offered Ukraine "security assurances" in exchange for its adhesion to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum bundled together a set of assurances that Ukraine already held from the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) Final Act, United Nations Charter and Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Ukrainian government nevertheless found it politically valuable to have these assurances in a Ukraine-specific document. [7] [8]

The Budapest Memorandum was negotiated as a political agreement. It refers to assurances, not defined, but less than a military guarantee of intervention. According to Stephen MacFarlane, a professor of international relations "It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine.[/B]

Sounds like Ukraine should have kept a few nukes "just in case" if anything to simply have a bargaining chip to keep outside troops out of their country.

 

[3MTA3]

Sounds like Ukraine should have kept a few nukes "just in case" if anything to simply have a bargaining chip to keep outside troops out of their country.

Can't they just buy some from North Korea like everyone else?

 

[cookie]

Uh-oh:
Fact Check: Could a Little-Known International Agreement With Ukraine Force U.S., Britain Into War With Russia? | TheBlaze.com

We would loose.

 

[coop44]

This reminds me of the Georgia conflict, when Bush tried to interviene.

I think what it really boild down to are the questions- why should we get involved at all? What does any of this have to do with the United States?

If there's anything I've learned, is that the Ukraine situation is a complex issue and there are many outside pulls on many sides of this.

who in their right mind would invade Georgia? Atlanta is a pit.

Just kidding

well they destroyed all of their nukes, destroyed most of their small arms, destroyed 15000 TONS of ammunition. ( excuse me I'm tearing up a little).

All because Obammer told them it would be ok, we would protect them.

Obammer cancelled missle defense for the region (not ukraine, but the czech republic and poland)

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Putin ain't stupid. He's got dip sheets number.
Think about it. How scared would you be of dip sheet?
He's limp...

 

[Grunwald]

Deleted - something weird happened and my response to a post got put into the wrong thread.

 

[MikeE]

Wonder how long this will affect the importation of Saigas.

Or Wolf and Tula ammo...

 

[EZLivin]

...As a matter of fact, I'd like to reduce the freedom of some others, like human signs that jump out in front of my car on busy streets to urgently tell me there is a furniture sale...

I'm a sucker for those methed-out jumping beans who play their cardboard pizza guitars. Makes me want one of their pizzas every time I see that!

 

[Norm0931]

Telling you guys, Obama told Putin it would be cool as long as he got to ban the importation of firearms and ammo. Otherwise, it's pretty obvious the administration could give two bubblegums about the whole thing. Obama got to use his favorite "wrong side of history" comment again though. He was probably happy about that, felt presidential.

 

[rdb241]

Has anybody else noticed that all the news footage of the Russians in the Ukraine, there are no magizines in there AK-74's. If you are invading, wouldn't you load your rifle?

 

[rdb241]

Or Wolf and Tula ammo...

Got mine................

 

[3MTA3]

Has anybody else noticed that all the news footage of the Russians in the Ukraine, there are no magizines in there AK-74's. If you are invading, wouldn't you load your rifle?

If your plan is to throw flowers at them, then why bring rifles in the first place?

Moot point, as expected Crimea just voted to join Russia. It will be interesting to see what happens now with the rest of Ukraine.

 

[bugeye]

If your plan is to throw flowers at them, then why bring rifles in the first place?

Moot point, as expected Crimea just voted to join Russia. It will be interesting to see what happens now with the rest of Ukraine.

Yes, that's practical for Crimea, If they can somehow convince the Tartar's that there will be no genocide, they just might be able to exist as an autonomous part of the Russian Federation. They are going to let the public vote on it in 10 days time. A win at the polls for the illegal pro Russian leadership just might put a thin stamp of legitimacy on the whole process.

 

[bugeye]

I'm a sucker for those methed-out jumping beans who play their cardboard pizza guitars. Makes me want one of their pizzas every time I see that!

Oh, I do understand the gripe you have there, but that is little bit different. A loud muffler violates the principle of "you have the right to flap your arms around until your fist hits my face".
I have two neighbors that have open exhaust bikes, which is illegal. I would like to chain those bikes to a truck and drag them down an cobblestone road. I won't even say what I would like to do to the inconsiderate aholes that own them.

The Mikado - The List (Eric Idle).avi - YouTube

Eric Idle doing a take off on Koko's 'I've got a little list" song from the Mikado.