Russia invades the Ukraine ..

[mrblond]

Its looking more and more like its really going down, and we will see War soon. The Ukrainian troops are moving to the border with Russia, and there were atleast 1 Soldier killed yesterday. Conflict is coming

 

[3MTA3]

Right or wrong, I don't think the US has the will for war. If the UN or NATO pulls a coalition together, then maybe, but it won't be under our leadership. The Ukraine is on its own, I think it may split into East and West Ukraine, with Russia taking the East to "protect" ethnic Russians, just like England should invade us to "protect" ethnic English...

 

[Burt Gummer]

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/new-executive-order-obama-has-just-given-himself-the-authority-to-seize-your-assets_03192014

Truth must be punished severely or it spreads like a virus.

Our hypocracy in the Crimea situation knows no bounds.

Right or wrong, I don't think the US has the will for war.

That is all we have the will for - two things keep the Ponzi afloat. War and the Petro Dollar (money printing out of thin air). We are an empty shell, a non-productive entity that is the caboose of the global economic train. It is printing and war or perish.

 

[RicInOR]

Argument that if they had a "2nd amendment" then the US would not be required to intervene.

It's hard to stand by and watch the plight of Ukraine and Venezuela, but the U.S. can do littleto positively impact either situation. The thing is, they don't need us. What they do need is a way to exercise their basic property rights and protect themselves. That is, they need guns, and could have used them to prevent their current crises.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/20/ukrainians-and-venezuelans-need-guns-to


I have felt that in other areas of Genocide - Dafur (Sudan) and Rwanda for example - the US could/should supply arms to those being persecuted. We should have stock piles of AK's picked up off the battle field. Those could have been distributed, along with ammo.

 

[cookie]

After thinking about this.. I can't do anything about it but I am sure it will cost me something.

 

[4Freedom]

Just give the Ukrainians a couple dozen medium range nukes and call it a day... Mutually assured destruction has managed to bring more peace to the world than all the wars in the world combined.. What were the Ukrainians thinking giving their nukes to Russia?? They dug their own graves.. The Russian empire may sleep, but it will never cease to conquer!

As power hungry as people claim the USA might be, just look at the map of all the countries the Soviet Union consumed and forced to live under its Iron Curtain. Poles, Albanians, Czechs, Ukrainians etc were not even allowed to speak their own language and 0nly taught Russian language and Russian history in schools.

Oh yeah, Ukraine and Russia also have some of the strictest gun control policies in the world, so its not like Ukrainian civilians will have a fighting chance against the hordes of Russians who will pour into their cities and towns and turn them back into another impoverished territory of the empire.

 

[Burt Gummer]

The one area that Russia has the corporate USA beat hands down is our youth.

We have a 'nation' of coddled babies. They are still raising men.

Just consider the following facts…

1. The average young American will spend 10,000 hours playing video games before the age of 21.

2. One study discovered that <broken link removed> of all Americans from age 8 to age 18 play video games, and that approximately four times as many boys are addicted to video games as girls are.

3. Average SAT scores have been falling for years, and the level of education that our kids are receiving in most of our public schools is a total joke.

4. According to a survey conducted by the National Geographic Society, only 37 percent of all Americans in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket can find the nation of Iraq on a map.

5. Only <broken link removed> of Oklahoma high school students know what the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution are called.

6. Only <broken link removed> of Oklahoma high school students know how many justices sit on the Supreme Court.

7. At this point, 15-year-olds that attend U.S. public schools <broken link removed> of all industrialized nations when it comes to math or science literacy.

8. The average American drinks more than 600 sodas every single year. That is by far the most in the world.

9. Back in 1962, only 13 percent of all Americans were obese. Right now, approximately 36 percent of all Americans are obese, and it is being projected that number will rise to 42 percent by 2030.

10. The United States has the highest divorce rate on the globe by a wide margin. This is ripping millions of families with children to shreds.

11. There are <broken link removed> of child abuse in the United States every single year.

12. At this point, approximately one out of every three children in the United States lives in a home without a father.

13. Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants as children in Europe are.

14. An astounding 30 percent of all Internet traffic now goes to pornography websites, and the U.S. produces more pornography than any other nation has in the history of the world.

15. The average high school boy spends <broken link removed> watching pornography every single week.

16. America has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world.

17. According to the latest figures released by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, there are 20 million new sexually-transmitted infections in the United States every single year, and Americans in the 15 to 24-year-old age range account for <broken link removed> of those new sexually-transmitted infections.

18. At this point, one out of every four teen girls in the U.S. has at least one sexually transmitted disease.

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/in...boys-learn-to-play-video-games-and-ogle-women

 

[3MTA3]

^ That's what happened when we left the age of reason and accomplishment behind for the Entertainment Age.

At this point it needs to break all the way before we can begin to rise.

 

[forefathersrback]

The one area that Russia has the corporate USA beat hands down is our youth.

We have a 'nation' of coddled babies. They are still raising men.

Just consider the following facts…

1. The average young American will spend 10,000 hours playing video games before the age of 21.

2. One study discovered that <broken link removed> of all Americans from age 8 to age 18 play video games, and that approximately four times as many boys are addicted to video games as girls are.

3. Average SAT scores have been falling for years, and the level of education that our kids are receiving in most of our public schools is a total joke.

4. According to a survey conducted by the National Geographic Society, only 37 percent of all Americans in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket can find the nation of Iraq on a map.

5. Only <broken link removed> of Oklahoma high school students know what the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution are called.

6. Only <broken link removed> of Oklahoma high school students know how many justices sit on the Supreme Court.

7. At this point, 15-year-olds that attend U.S. public schools <broken link removed> of all industrialized nations when it comes to math or science literacy.

8. The average American drinks more than 600 sodas every single year. That is by far the most in the world.

9. Back in 1962, only 13 percent of all Americans were obese. Right now, approximately 36 percent of all Americans are obese, and it is being projected that number will rise to 42 percent by 2030.

10. The United States has the highest divorce rate on the globe by a wide margin. This is ripping millions of families with children to shreds.

11. There are <broken link removed> of child abuse in the United States every single year.

12. At this point, approximately one out of every three children in the United States lives in a home without a father.

13. Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants as children in Europe are.

14. An astounding 30 percent of all Internet traffic now goes to pornography websites, and the U.S. produces more pornography than any other nation has in the history of the world.

15. The average high school boy spends <broken link removed> watching pornography every single week.

16. America has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world.

17. According to the latest figures released by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, there are 20 million new sexually-transmitted infections in the United States every single year, and Americans in the 15 to 24-year-old age range account for <broken link removed> of those new sexually-transmitted infections.

18. At this point, one out of every four teen girls in the U.S. has at least one sexually transmitted disease.

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/in...boys-learn-to-play-video-games-and-ogle-women

Burt, interesting facts. I use to worry about my grandchildren becoming metrosexual. But with the values that we have instilled in our children, I'm sure our families next generation is safe. (At least in our DNA code). I have told my 6 grandchildren ages 8 months to 14 yrs old, work hard, be respectful, and not to fall into the basic BS of life. Yes even the 8 month old. I tell them they do not want to become a leningrad sandwich. Yes, they know the history of what happened in leningrad, during WW2.

 

[Burt Gummer]

That is pretty awesome Forefathersrback.

As for the Russian comparison, they are teaching their kids to ask questions, think, survive, prepare and fight if necessary.

Our government schools are simply teaching kids how to be good government drones looking down to text as they walk.

That is not a failure per se. That is the desired result of the government school systems.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

We are headed for war, and its within 12 months of less. When I say 12 months, I mean it will be closer to our dirt than Ukraines.
The next pres needs to have a military background.
Prepare your kids dudes.

 

[slimmer13]

We are headed for war, and its within 12 months of less. When I say 12 months, I mean it will be closer to our dirt than Ukraines.
The next pres needs to have a military background.
Prepare your kids dudes.

Ill bet you 1k Mini Mags you're wrong?

 

[Oregonhunter5]

That's a lot of mini mags. Are you a militia?

 

[Burt Gummer]

There will be war when the Oligarchs want it. Nothing is by accident or planned well in advance.

Their failure to frame Syria and other missteps they've made in recent months is interesting though.

America needs to keep out of it, but of course that will not happen. Because we are talking about the United States of America here, a dying corporation lashing out around the globe just like every failing empire before it.

We have money printing and war as our playing cards at the poker table, but nothing else.

 

[raftman]

Just give the Ukrainians a couple dozen medium range nukes and call it a day... Mutually assured destruction has managed to bring more peace to the world than all the wars in the world combined.. What were the Ukrainians thinking giving their nukes to Russia?? They dug their own graves.. The Russian empire may sleep, but it will never cease to conquer!

As power hungry as people claim the USA might be, just look at the map of all the countries the Soviet Union consumed and forced to live under its Iron Curtain. Poles, Albanians, Czechs, Ukrainians etc were not even allowed to speak their own language and 0nly taught Russian language and Russian history in schools.

Oh yeah, Ukraine and Russia also have some of the strictest gun control policies in the world, so its not like Ukrainian civilians will have a fighting chance against the hordes of Russians who will pour into their cities and towns and turn them back into another impoverished territory of the empire.

The "impoverished territory of the empire" bit is a real hoot, Russia's GDP per capita is nearly 3 times greater than Ukraine's. Russia also has a significantly better debt-to-GDP ratio than Ukraine (debt=10-12% of GDP vs. debt=37% of GDP, especially keeping in mind the latter is set to skyrocket) and Russia's got far less unemployment than Ukraine (5.6% vs. around 8%). Nearly 10% of Ukrainians work in Russia already.

Frankly, Ukraine is probably better off with the Russians and us wasting any of our resources on that corrupt, capricious mess of a nation is throwing away billions of dollars that would be better-spent here.

 

[fd15k]

Poles, Albanians, Czechs, Ukrainians etc were not even allowed to speak their own language and 0nly taught Russian language and Russian history in schools.

Oh yeah, Ukraine and Russia also have some of the strictest gun control policies in the world, so its not like Ukrainian civilians will have a fighting chance against the hordes of Russians who will pour into their cities and towns and turn them back into another impoverished territory of the empire.

I've got to note you don't know bubblegum about that stuff. Thanks for expressing your opinion nonetheless

 

[4Freedom]

I've got to note you don't know bubblegum about that stuff. Thanks for expressing your opinion nonetheless

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and deep knowledge of Soviet and Eastern European history.

Here's some study material for you, go learn about this guy..


P.S.
My grandmother was born in Belarus and great grandparents were born in Ukraine.. Over 1/4 of my relatives first language is Russian. We were not allowed to speak our cultural language either.. Of course, we did so anyway, but definitely in secret.

 

[4Freedom]

The "impoverished territory of the empire" bit is a real hoot, Russia's GDP per capita is nearly 3 times greater than Ukraine's. Russia also has a significantly better debt-to-GDP ratio than Ukraine (debt=10-12% of GDP vs. debt=37% of GDP, especially keeping in mind the latter is set to skyrocket) and Russia's got far less unemployment than Ukraine (5.6% vs. around 8%). Nearly 10% of Ukrainians work in Russia already.

Frankly, Ukraine is probably better off with the Russians and us wasting any of our resources on that corrupt, capricious mess of a nation is throwing away billions of dollars that would be better-spent here.

Russia has oil and more natural resources. How evenly distributed is Russia's wealth? These statistics look good on paper, but Russia also has a well established oligarchy.

Even if Russia is more successful than Ukraine, it has a horrible track record of how it treated its Ukrainian neighbors.. Here's a little history refreshment of the Ukrainian genocide committed by the Russians, a forced starvation that killed almost 8 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor



BTW, for all the success Russia has the life expectancy for males is 64 compared to 67 for Ukrainian men.. Considering Russian life expectancy is on par with many third world countries, I would say it is hardly a model for success.

As far as per Capita GDP, I am always skeptical of these statistics in countries that host so many extremely powerful billionaires/oligarchs/monarchs.. For example, Saudi Arabia has a Per Capita GDP higher than Russia's at $21,000, yet it is reported that 1/4 of all Saudis live below the poverty level. Could Russia also possibly be in a similar situation?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/01/saudi-arabia-riyadh-poverty-inequality

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/04/12/disturbing-trend-for-putin-russian-poverty-rising/

After doing some research here, perhaps Russians are not lively so well , afterall , and also being hidden under a facade, progress and wealth so common in dictatorships were so few control a vast amount of wealth.

http://triblive.com/usworld/world/5453330-74/sochi-residents-olympic#axzz2xKqKBbgN

Right in the outskirts of Sochi, Russia, where the Winter Olympic games were hosted, there are crumbling apartment buildings were people are living without water or sewage. Is this how people in a successful country live? There are people in countries with much lesser Per Capita GDP that do not live in these 3rd world type of conditions.


I have no biased here as I don't feel personally loved by Ukrainian people or even like Ukraine, personally. However, I am not closing my eyes to Russian belligerence.

Should we get involved?? There is many who think WWII could have been avoided if we just gave into Hitler's demands. Should we give East Germany back to the Russians? Many Russians still believe that is their land, as well as Poland, Czech Republic along with many other Slavic nations, including the former Yugoslavia.

If Russia conquers Europe would it still not be our problem?

I guess I am naive not to trust the Russians and their intentions.. Afterall, they just want to protect their poor abused Russian citizens in their neighboring country. Considering, Russian oligarchs are buying up property all over Europe and there is the establishment of large Russian communities around Europe, I would say Russia has quite a vast amount of interests it will need to protect in Europe. E.g., Russians now own a large amount of property in Croatia.

Anyhow, I am not for getting involved in any ground, air, sea or any other type of conflict. I say just let those other countries (who call themselves our allies) have access to their own nukes. Nuclear weapons bring peace.. That is my solution to the whole mess.. Give Ukraine a couple dozen nukes and see if Russia won't back off.. Everybody could go about their business as usual, no wars are fought and no more kids have to die for whatever cause they think they are fighting for or their leaders tell them they are fighting for.

 

[raftman]

Russia has oil and more natural resources. How evenly distributed is Russia's wealth? These statistics look good on paper, but Russia also has a well established oligarchy.

Even if Russia is more successful than Ukraine, it has a horrible track record of how it treated its Ukrainian neighbors.. Here's a little history refreshment of the Ukrainian genocide committed by the Russians, a forced starvation that killed almost 8 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor



BTW, for all the success Russia has the life expectancy for males is 64 compared to 67 for Ukrainian men.. Considering Russian life expectancy is on par with many third world countries, I would say it is hardly a model for success.

As far as per Capita GDP, I am always skeptical of these statistics in countries that host so many extremely powerful billionaires/oligarchs/monarchs.. For example, Saudi Arabia has a Per Capita GDP higher than Russia's at $21,000, yet it is reported that 1/4 of all Saudis live below the poverty level. Could Russia also possibly be in a similar situation?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/01/saudi-arabia-riyadh-poverty-inequality

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/04/12/disturbing-trend-for-putin-russian-poverty-rising/

After doing some research here, perhaps Russians are not lively so well , afterall , and also being hidden under a facade, progress and wealth so common in dictatorships were so few control a vast amount of wealth.

http://triblive.com/usworld/world/5453330-74/sochi-residents-olympic#axzz2xKqKBbgN

Right in the outskirts of Sochi, Russia, where the Winter Olympic games were hosted, there are crumbling apartment buildings were people are living without water or sewage. Is this how people in a successful country live? There are people in countries with much lesser Per Capita GDP that do not live in these 3rd world type of conditions.


I have no biased here as I don't feel personally loved by Ukrainian people or even like Ukraine, personally. However, I am not closing my eyes to Russian belligerence.

Should we get involved?? There is many who think WWII could have been avoided if we just gave into Hitler's demands. Should we give East Germany back to the Russians? Many Russians still believe that is their land, as well as Poland, Czech Republic along with many other Slavic nations, including the former Yugoslavia.

If Russia conquers Europe would it still not be our problem?

I guess I am naive not to trust the Russians and their intentions.. Afterall, they just want to protect their poor abused Russian citizens in their neighboring country. Considering, Russian oligarchs are buying up property all over Europe and there is the establishment of large Russian communities around Europe, I would say Russia has quite a vast amount of interests it will need to protect in Europe. E.g., Russians now own a large amount of property in Croatia.

Anyhow, I am not for getting involved in any ground, air, sea or any other type of conflict. I say just let those other countries (who call themselves our allies) have access to their own nukes. Nuclear weapons bring peace.. That is my solution to the whole mess.. Give Ukraine a couple dozen nukes and see if Russia won't back off.. Everybody could go about their business as usual, no wars are fought and no more kids have to die for whatever cause they think they are fighting for or their leaders tell them they are fighting for.

Regarding the "horrible track record" of how Russia has treated Ukrainians. I'm well aware of Holodomor, but it's an absurdly moronic argument in a modern-day context. It took place 80+ years ago. It was not "the Russians" who did that but the Stalinist government, yes there is a difference regardless of your inability and/or unwillingness to see it. Keep in mind the same regime killed millions of Russians as well. By the late 1950's the Russians were able to look past what the Germans had done to them in WW2 (by issuing amnesty to ex-Third Reich collaborators, combatants). It is not the same country, not the same people. Ukrainian nationalist movements too have committed barbarous acts of genocide/ethnic cleansing in the 30's and 40's, but all of that is of course can be forgotten or ignored. Funny how that seems to work one way. Ukraine has a "horrible track record" for its treatment of non-Ukrainians, so does this make Russia's position just? By your own logic, yes.

Regarding your hyperbolic statements regarding wealth distribution in Russia, according to the Gini index, wealth in Russia is more evenly distributed than here in the USA.

Many Russians still believe East Germany, the Czech Republic is still their land? Gonna have to cite some statistics here, because it honestly sounds like you're making that up, along with number of other claims you've made in this discussion. There are no doubt a few random people over there who might harbor such beliefs but there are people everywhere that harbor nonsensical beliefs, that doesn't make it a matter of national policy. In hacked phone conversation Yulia Tymoshenko advocated ethnic cleansing in Ukraine by wiping out the entire 8,000,000 ethnic Russian population in that nation. Is that a matter of Ukrainian national policy? If so, then Russia's actions in Crimea are completely just and right.

Buying property abroad is a pretty foolish argument as well, wealthy people from all over the world buy up property abroad everywhere, doesn't make some nefarious plot for world domination.

 

[fd15k]

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and deep knowledge of Soviet and Eastern European history.

Here's some study material for you, go learn about this guy..


P.S.
My grandmother was born in Belarus and great grandparents were born in Ukraine.. Over 1/4 of my relatives first language is Russian. We were not allowed to speak our cultural language either.. Of course, we did so anyway, but definitely in secret.

I admit, I don't know as much about Albania as I know about Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and various Soviet Republics (I know/knew people from all of these places). I know Soviets did not force Russian onto people of other ethnicities as the only allowed language. All of the Soviet Republics practiced a dual system of education at least up to the high school - people were given a choice to either study in the language native to their area and take Russian as the second, or study in Russian and take local language as the second. And that's when it comes to the Soviet Republics (where Soviet power was absolute), not other Communist regimes friendly to the Soviet Union.
When it comes to the other countries, such as Poland you mentioned, they did learn Russian as a foreign language, while their own language was the primary in all areas.

Second point you brought up is gun ownership. I don't know about the entire Soviet block, but I can tell you about Soviet Union itself. Handguns were prohibited for civilian ownership, but long guns were pretty common for hunting purposes and weren't extremely difficult to obtain - one was required to take a hunter education class and qualify at the range. For the first 3 years they could only buy shotguns, but after they were allowed rifles as well.

You're not the first person who has "a grandsomething". I don't know much about your relatives, but I would suggest you also talk to people who came from those places and lived there in the last 20-30 years before 1990. And then of course as was pointed out to you by another member, it is not a valid position to equate Stalin's regime with entire Soviet rule. Not that I like either one.