Replacing collapsible stock on an AR-15, legal trap

[Botte Hork]

When replacing the collapsible stock on an AR-15, should one remove the upper from the lower during the procedure to be legally safe? I was wondering because technically the rifle becomes a pistol without the stock, correct (basically a long-barreled AR-pistol)? That would be frowned upon by the ATF I'd say.

Read More

 

[Ligito]

Replacing with what?

 

[Kable]

When replacing the collapsible stock on an AR-15, should one remove the upper from the lower during the procedure to be legally safe? I was wondering because technically the rifle becomes a pistol without the stock, correct (basically a long-barreled AR-pistol)? That would be frowned upon by the ATF I'd say.

Not entirely sure what your talking about but the lower receiver is technically the firearm, when it's first purchased and the first 4473 form is filled out it must be classified as a rifle or pistol, if you bought it assembled then obviously it was classified as a rifle and as far as I know you can't change the classification so just dissembling an AR wouldn't be any kind of legal trap. Although I'm no lawyer and it's been a while since I looked into info on assembling an AR from scratch that is what I recall

 

[Keane]

There are no laws against having a 'long barreled' pistol, so you wouldn't have a problem whatsoever. Even if the ATF broke in at the exact instance the stock was off, it would be a legal product, UNLESS you had a VFG or something (then it is an AOW).

 

[Botte Hork]

Replacing with what?

Another stock. It's the time between taking the original one off and the new one on that I wonder about.

Not entirely sure what your talking about but the lower receiver is technically the firearm, when it's first purchased and the first 4473 form is filled out it must be classified as a rifle or pistol, if you bought it assembled then obviously it was classified as a rifle and as far as I know you can't change the classification so just dissembling an AR wouldn't be any kind of legal trap. Although I'm no lawyer and it's been a while since I looked into info on assembling an AR from scratch that is what I recall

No, it can also be classified as "other", which is the right classification for a "new" stripped lower.

The thing is, you can change an AR pistol into a non-NFA rifle without problems, but if you first put on the stock and then the longer barrel, you'll have an SBR in the mean time.

There are no laws against having a 'long barreled' pistol, so you wouldn't have a problem whatsoever. Even if the ATF broke in at the exact instance the stock was off, it would be a legal product, UNLESS you had a VFG or something (then it is an AOW).

But you can't legally make a pistol out of a rifle, to my best knowledge, without any additional paperwork.

 

[FreedomNW]

When replacing the collapsible stock on an AR-15, should one remove the upper from the lower during the procedure to be legally safe? I was wondering because technically the rifle becomes a pistol without the stock, correct (basically a long-barreled AR-pistol)? That would be frowned upon by the ATF I'd say.

Two things (and I don't mean to be nit picky) - How exactly would you replace said stock with the rifle fully assembled? And, without the buffer assembly, wouldn't you just have a hunk of useless metal and not a functioning firearm of any sort?

 

[Botte Hork]

Two things (and I don't mean to be nit picky) - How exactly would you replace said stock with the rifle fully assembled? And, without the buffer assembly, wouldn't you just have a hunk of useless metal and not a functioning firearm of any sort?

It's pretty simple, look at the Magpul MOE stock for example. Squeeze button, pull pin further down and shift it off the buffer tube. That can easily be done with the rifle fully assembled on your lap. From my understanding that would make it similar to an AR pistol.

 

[rick benjamin]

I agree with post 6.
Is the AR chamber empty, magazine removed? Please say yes...

Without a buffer group, AR won't function for more than one shot.
I imagine the bolt carrier smashing the shooter's cheek, eye,
sheared-off carrier key, Lower receiver extention threads messed-up.

 

[FreedomNW]

It's pretty simple, look at the Magpul MOE stock for example. Squeeze button, pull pin further down and shift it off the buffer tube. That can easily be done with the rifle fully assembled on your lap. From my understanding that would make it similar to an AR pistol.

I assumed that he meant to actually change out the entire assembly and was concerned that in the interim, he may have an AOW or some other variant. That said, while I am not a lawyer, I can't see how the act of disassembling a competent for cleaning, repair, or replacement reasons would run afoul of the law.

 

[Brutus57]

Alright already, just turn off your computer, unskype, unplug the phone, lock the dog in the other room, take the battery out of your cell phone, close the garage door and change out the stock... last I heard ATF was busy with F&F 3.0 and NSA has fallen completely apart since Snowden hightailed it to Commie ville!
Brutus Out

 

[Ligito]

If you want to replace a collapsible stock with another collapsible stock, just pull down on the adjustment lever, pull the stock off and reverse the procedure, to install the new one.

You can do this without violating any laws and without having to separate the upper and lower.
It's just part of the same procedure for cleaning an AR and dis-assembly is by no means a violation of any law, except maybe in Kalifornia.

 

[The B]

Dude... WTF. "Over-thinking this" doesn't even begin to describe this thread.

 

[John H]

When replacing the collapsible stock on an AR-15, should one remove the upper from the lower during the procedure to be legally safe? I was wondering because technically the rifle becomes a pistol without the stock, correct (basically a long-barreled AR-pistol)? That would be frowned upon by the ATF I'd say.

Bull-bubblegum, If it still has the rifle receiver extention, it is STILL A RIFLE. Out of all the things to be worried about , you pick this??

 

[Brutus57]

Bull-bubblegum, If it still has the rifle receiver extention, it is STILL A RIFLE. Out of all the things to be worried about , you pick this??

My thoughts exactly!

 

[The B]

I suppose taking the barrel off an AR will cause it to become a short-barreled rifle, also.. Would putting the weapon inside a soft case make it a suppressor? IF I TAKE MY MUZZLE DEVICE OFF, IT'S CONSTRUCTIVE INTENT TO INSTALL A SUPPRESSOR ADAPTER AND SUPPRESSOR!

This is getting real, guize.

 

[Brutus57]

I suppose taking the barrel off an AR will cause it to become a short-barreled rifle, also.. Would putting the weapon inside a soft case make it a suppressor? IF I TAKE MY MUZZLE DEVICE OFF, IT'S CONSTRUCTIVE INTENT TO INSTALL A SUPPRESSOR ADAPTER AND SUPPRESSOR!
No No No, Ben, putting your rifle in a soft case makes it a concealed weapon, you have get a license for that, donchaknow! hee hee
Brutus Out

 

[The B]

You're right. Someone come get these damn guns out of my safe... can't handle this bubblegum.

 

[Botte Hork]

I agree with post 6.
Is the AR chamber empty, magazine removed? Please say yes...

Of course.

Without a buffer group, AR won't function for more than one shot.
I imagine the bolt carrier smashing the shooter's cheek, eye,
sheared-off carrier key, Lower receiver extention threads messed-up.

The buffer tube is still there, the only thing coming off is the part that shifts.

Bull-bubblegum, If it still has the rifle receiver extention, it is STILL A RIFLE. Out of all the things to be worried about , you pick this??

There are many things to worry about, this just came to mind and I wanted to get some opinions. But you say the buffer tube on a rifle is different from an AR pistol, which keeps the distinction between the two?

Maybe I'm wrong in my train of thought that it could turn it into a functional pistol, but I enjoy the fact an honest question is being ridiculed. Doesn't hurt to ask, does it?

 

[SCARed]

when it's first purchased and the first 4473 form is filled out it must be classified as a rifle or pistol

No. If your just buying a AR lower reciever, it would be marked "other firearm" on the 4473. Even if it had a stock on it at time of purchace.

 

[FreedomNW]

But you say the buffer tube on a rifle is different from an AR pistol, which keeps the distinction between the two? Maybe I'm wrong in my train of thought that it could turn it into a functional pistol, but I enjoy the fact an honest question is being ridiculed. Doesn't hurt to ask, does it?

A pistol buffer tube is different in that it is built so that it cannot accept a stock piece. Usually it has a foam cap or is just rounded off metal. Here is one example:

AR-15/M16 PISTOL BUFFER TUBE | Brownells

Merely taking off the stock end does not make it a pistol. Conversely, if you had a dedicated AR pistol and added a rifle buffer tube, you would have created an SBR even if you did not actually install the stock.

Also note, once you have built a receiver into a rifle, it is a rifle forever and you can not convert it to a pistol at some point in the future.

The best thing is to keep your rifle a rifle, your pistol a pistol, and just do the paperwork for anything else you may want such as an SBR. At least as of now this is a fairly easy process in Oregon if you don't mind waiting the 8 months or so for the ATF to return your paperwork.