Replacing collapsible stock on an AR-15, legal trap

[SCARed]

Also note, once you have built a receiver into a rifle, it is a rifle forever and you can not convert it to a pistol at some point in the future.

Not true. A pistol can be made into a rifle and converted back again. But if the firearm is listed as a "Long gun" on the 4473, then it can not be made into a pistol.

 

[The B]

But if the firearm is listed as a "Long gun" on the 4473, then it can not be made into a pistol.

Yes it can. Bring it here... my armorer's wrench will show you how.

 

[John H]

. But you say the buffer tube on a rifle is different from an AR pistol, which keeps the distinction between the two?

Yes they are different.

 

[Page.k]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the stock is off of the AR rifle it'll become a firearm and not a pistol. Not some local areas have laws on pistols with a barrel longer than 12in.
A pistol is made to be used with one hand and a rifle needs a stock. But when you look at the short list of guns that the ATF calls fire arms you'll see this guy. >>> <broken link removed>
Over all it's over 26in complete.

 

[chariot13]

Whether or not something is a pistol or a rifle isn't a concern of the ATF, its whether or not its a short barreled rifle or a pistol with a stock that they work their panties into a gooey mess over. You can put a pistol buffer on an AR that is registered as a rifle, not sure why you'd want to but as long as it has a 16" barrel and a minimum overall length of 26" while fully operational, its all good.

 

[U201491]

Alright already, just turn off your computer, unskype, unplug the phone, lock the dog in the other room, take the battery out of your cell phone, close the garage door and change out the stock... last I heard ATF was busy with F&F 3.0 and NSA has fallen completely apart since Snowden hightailed it to Commie ville!
Brutus Out

You just broke a rib here

 

[Velzey]

I just replaced mine while wearing one flip flop! The other was used a pad in the vice....

 

[Nwcid]

It all has to do with definitions.

NO, there is NO legal way to make a rifle into a pistol. It can NOT be legally done. Once legally a rifle the ONLY thing it can be is a rifle or an SBR. If you have a RDIAS or a LL you could use it as a full auto, but the receiver is still not the registered part.

27 CFR 478.11 - Meaning of terms. | Title 27 - Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms | Code of Federal Regulations | LII / Legal Information Institute

Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Short-barreled rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length, and any weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

The reason it is legal to put a "pistol" buffer tube on a virgin AR receiver and be legal is it is not DESIGNED to be fired from the shoulder. But if you use a rifle tube it can be readily restored to have a stock on it so is designed to be fired from the shoulder.

So it is legal to take the stock on and off the buffer tube because the gun is still meant to be fired from the shoulder.

Say you had an Olympic Arms style AR that does not use a buffer tube at all. Say it was built and sold as a rifle. If you were to remove the stock from it and use a 16" barrel with it then you would have an SBR since the OAL of the gun would be about 24".

 

[Page.k]

I wonder if some people even read the starting post......... I still stand by if you remove the stock to change stocks if the upper is still on it will become a firearm. It's a gun in the state of being worked on "stock replacement".
Federal Firearms Act. 15 U.S.C. Chapter 18.

Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics.

 

[Nwcid]

It always was a firearm, how can it "become" one? Firearm coves ALL things that meet the definition. Firearms are further broken down into Title 1 and Title 2 firearms. Then from there are broke down into more specific definitions.

By ATF definition the main serial numbered part of a firearm, which is generally the receiver, IS the firearm. So even if there is no upper, no barrel, no FCG, no stock, no parts at all the receiver is still a firearm. This is why you need an FFL to purchase this part.

That like saying a Truck becomes a Vehicle if you were to take the bed off. It always was a vehicle but what kind was not defined.

 

[Botte Hork]

Thanks Nwcid, your post #28 clarified it quite well, thank you!

 

[dwaineshort]

When replacing the collapsible stock on an AR-15, should one remove the upper from the lower during the procedure to be legally safe? I was wondering because technically the rifle becomes a pistol without the stock, correct (basically a long-barreled AR-pistol)? That would be frowned upon by the ATF I'd say.

In Washington your fine replacing the stock with another. If you left the stock off, and went with just the buffer tube, You should be fine as long as the rifle is over all 26" in length. If you changed the barrel under 16" and over length of 26". Then you could be breaking the because it would now be an SBR. The only problem you might run into is that some ranges don't allow rifle with out a stock. Sorry for some of the A$# hats on here. Some of these guy forget that some people might be newer to the type of firearm.

 

[BoonDocks36]

You're right. Someone come get these damn guns out of my safe... can't handle this bubblegum.

Ben, have no worry, I'll be over right away to help you out, OK, Don't ~panic~ I will be there right away...

You'll recognize me, I will be dressed in a Black Balacava, and have SWAT on the front & Back of my Plate Carrier... Easy to identify !!!!!

philip, Oh boy, another collection... Yippers!!!!

In the BoonDocks, just joshin with you, I'd never wear the Balacava with my Plate Carrier