Removing the Tap from Tap Rack Malfunction Clearing

[titsonritz]

One of the things im trying to find here is if this new technique is universal or specific to newer or certain guns.
If ones pistol or person doesnt have mag seating issues then it makes sense, but what if one owns and or uses several pistols, or has big hands, or is an older person using an older gun like a 1911?

Hell some guns, like the Walther PP series and Beretta Nano do not have a slide release, do we train differently when dealing with type 3 malfunctions with every other pistol because of it? In this case, for a 1911 all it takes is some modern mags like Wilson 47Ds. For big hands with small guns, use extended mags for reloads. My G19 and G26 are paired with G17 reload mags. The traditional methods may or may not works for all guns, but are they most efficient way to run a modern pistol? Not from what I've seen and that's what I see most people training with.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I guess I grew up in the era where semi-auto malfunctioned more.

Started my career in 1987 packing a S&W Model 10. Progressed to a 686, which I ran 2 into the ground, and was well on my way to grinding on the third when I switched to my 1911.

S&W K and L frames do not hold up to magnum shooting much.

 

[WillametteWill]

S&W K and L frames do not hold up to magnum shooting much.

Agree with that! Pretty much only shoot 38's with the K's. I figured we had similar paths, started in 1985 with a M15 before transitioning to 5904. My agency was kinda late coming to the semi-auto party.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Mine was late too. Had a Retired WSP Trooper as Sheriff...surprised we didn't carry them in cross draw holsters...ugh.

 

[Koda]

Look at post 16, the video I posted...he goes through several different guns and shows it works on everything...yes, even the 1911...which is the first pistol I tried, as I carried a 1911 everywhere.

I have. He didn't address if a mag release is accidentally depressed and on many guns especially a 1911 the mag wont drop free if the mag release spring is on it. He emphasized using a basepad on a 1911 (which is a good idea) is all.

Hell some guns, like the Walther PP series and Beretta Nano do not have a slide release, do we train differently when dealing with type 3 malfunctions with every other pistol because of it?

Ive never been trained to use the slide release, IIRC was trained not to specifically or this reason. The traditional tap rack bang technique has always been with the overhand method to rack the slide and works with all pistols.

 

[titsonritz]

Ive never been trained to use the slide release, IIRC was trained not to specifically or this reason. The traditional tap rack bang technique has always been with the overhand method to rack the slide and works with all pistols.

I was actually referring to locking of the slide back in general with that example not so much this specific clearance. I disagree the overhand method to rack the slide works with all pistols argument as it is less than ideal for pistol with Walther style safeties like the Beretta m9/92 or 3rd gen S&W are too easily activated. After years of racking the slide I've gone back to the slide release.

 

[Koda]

I disagree the overhand method to rack the slide works with all pistols argument as it is less than ideal for pistol with Walther style safeties like the Beretta m9/92 or 3rd gen S&W are too easily activated.

I actually agree about slide mounted safeties and why I will never buy another one. It does work but its less than ideal as you have to build in a concious difference for those specific pistols. I still dont use the slide stop because most of them I cant reach with my thumb.

 

[titsonritz]

I actually agree about slide mounted safeties and why I will never buy another one.

Me either, Beretta G-mode is the only exception I can think of.

 

[EPS]

The tap is there for one reason that is.
If in the heat of the moment when drawing your gun you accidentally hit the mag release button.
The mag doesn't fall out you take ONE SHOT.
because that's all you going to get.
Because with the mag not all the way in it will not load the next round.
So what do you do.
TAP RACK FIRE.
if that doesn't work see the video above from thunder ranch.

 

[EPS]

I believe he talks about it at the end .
DON'T OVER THINK IT DON'T IBM it.
Just beat the snot out of it till it works.

 

[sobo]

I submit this short video since I believe it to be germane to this discussion.
My first reload resulted in a malfunction. See how it's discovered and how it's (eventually) cleared.
Please overlook the fact that "someone" forgot to reset the steel popper. I shot 'im anyway, even though he was already down. No prisoners...

I'll happily accept constructive criticism from those that are high-level shooters and/or instructors, i.e., Cerberus Group, others, etc.
If you want to malfunction-shame me, please feel free to go over to the Shooting Pictures thread and post your snark over there. I'm sure it will be entertaining.
Please reserve this thread for instruction/critique, and thank you.
View attachment 05-09-20_Stage4_Sobo.MOV

 

[Koda]

Note malfunction right after the first reload and how it's (eventually) cleared.

that is exactly what Ive been trying to illustrate why Im hesitant to say we should leave out the tap.

 

[sobo]

Yes, the malfunction was not rectified until after the mag was properly seated, which required a tap..

 

[Koda]

The critical thing here is a seated mag has to be there for a pistol to function so the idea of leaving out the tap only has merit if its impossible to have an unseated mag, no matter how rare an unseated mag is it is a critical component of a working gun. Speed and tactical reloads are common practical applications that can introduce an unseated mag under stress (among other things).

 

[sobo]

Speed and tactical reloads are common practical applications that can introduce an unseated mag under stress (among other things).

As this video clearly demonstrates...

 

[Cerberus Group]

I submit this short video since I believe it to be germane to this discussion.
My first reload resulted in a malfunction. See how it's discovered and how it's (eventually) cleared.

From what I can see, you did a slide forward load? or Tac-Load.

Yes, a Tap is required there as its the first round out of the pistol after a load...which is typical when trying to shove a fully loaded magazine into a pistol with the slide forward.

With the magazine spring already under full pressure, you're forcing it to compress a bit more, as the top round comes in contact with the under side of the slide...pushing that round down a bit.

Tac loads are tough because of the above. I find a good portion of time dedicated to Tac loads will overcome the tough problem of seating a fully loaded magazine with the slide forward.

I see it a lot with the AR platform as well. I encourage people to check their fully loaded magazines to make sure they seat with the bolt forward. If they cause much an effort to seat, download them until the magazine seats easily...or find a different magazine.

Just about every magazine seating problem I see is due to the above.

 

[sobo]

Yes indeed, sir! That was a slide-forward tactical reload. One was still in the pipe after the first two sets of targets.
I knew I would run out before expiring the next 4 targets, so I reloaded while moving to "position 3".

This is the first time I have a mag seating problem in a tactical reload in a year of this style (USPSA) of shooting (my first USPSA match was St. Patty's Day 2019).
I had a funny feeling that reload "just didn't feel right" as I moved into positon to engage the next target, but I didn't do anything about it (like I know I should have).
Looking at the video now, it's obvious to me that I should have been much faster at clearing this malfunction. Slo-mo reveals that it took about 6 seconds to clear.

Mr. Cerberus, I thank you for your critique of this malfunction.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I got a M&P 4" compact a couple months ago and it's a beast to Tac load. But after about 2k through it, and a few "come to Jesus" meetings, we've come to a solid understanding.

 

[zenbreath]

Take the fail to extract or double feed, that was mainly a 1911 problem, as their extractor is a weak point. Fast forward to now, with modem pistols one very rarely sees one.

I have to disagree. Right around Y2K, I started working armed security. We were issued S&W Sigma .40. My weapon was always spotless and after 20 rounds it would start to jam. I got so good at clearing malfunctions that on a few occasions I could clear it and get all of my rounds off before the buzzer.

The CJTC standard for instructors to clear a failure to extract (including Rack Rack Rack) is 7 seconds. I once had a completely unexpected failure to extract, (handloads), and I was 9 seconds, bang to bang. Even an outdated drill will get you back in the fight if it is a reflex.

Press check.
If you do everything right, a press check is not needed.
I have seen too many students click instead of bang with their first round. The press check means that they will qualify on the first run and we won't need the time, stress and paperwork of re-qualifiing.

 

[zenbreath]

Years ago when I was building 1911s for LE, I was asked if my builds would manipulate facing up or down. I told them I didn't know why they wouldn't, as being a controlled feed and ejection, they don't rely on any other outside force to properly cycle.

So off I went to test the theory...even hung upside down on my kids high bar, 'nary a problem.

Then went on to test other pistols ARs and AKs...all functioned in any position I worked them. Sig, S&W, Glock, Beretta etc. The only ones that failed had mechanical problems.

I find most problems with manipulations are pilot error...most usually lack of training time with their chosen platform.

The cycle of action may work in any direction but gravity only works one direction. When you want a pesky piece of unneeded brass away from your weapon, you want gravity, (and St Peter...and all his friends), to be your friend, not your enemy. This is why the Owen smg was more reliable than any other smg in WW2.