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Remember if you have to pull it, use it, use it before the other guy

Discussion in 'Defensive Carry & Self Defense' started by clearconscience, May 2, 2016.

  1. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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  2. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    The guy shot dead was a Marine father of 3.

    Dang it.
     
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  3. Logan Wilson

    Logan Wilson Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Should have let the guy flee honestly and given medical assistance to the woman. Sad day for that family my prayers go out to them.
     
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  4. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why I never recommend identifying yourself to the threat.
    Warning shots aren't considered a good idea so why would somebody think a verbal warning is ok.
    As others have said if you're going to draw you need to shoot.
    He already proved to be a threat.
     
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  5. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the guy already shot someone, if you are trying to stop him there's no doubt he'll shoot you too.
     
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  6. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Nobody likes to think carrying a gun could get you killed.

    But just carrying it may at some point, obligate you to use it.

    I remember a story about a off duty cop on a new York subway. [This was back in the 80's].
    Five thugs started to surround and harass him. Eventually they found his handgun.

    They were so scared and angry about the gun. They cut the guys trigger finger off. And threw him a beating. :s0002:
     
  7. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Deadly threat present, moral and legal obligation to discuss is waved.
    People watch to much TV. Deadly threat = deadly forced permitted to end the threat period. You are not a negotiator !
     
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  8. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Sub Light Speed Well-Known Member

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    Gun fighting 101 rule's!!! #1, never draw on a drawn gun until you can reach cover! #2 never fire a warning shot or give commands after bad guy shoots, #3 Never give chase! #4 The second you draw your side arm, the second you become a threat, do not hesitate to shoot once you draw! Bad guy made it clear he is ready and willing to employ lethal means, that clears you to use what ever means you have to end the threat! De escalation is for the professionals when they arrive!
     
  9. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Here's a question?

    Do you consider multiple threats [Multiple attackers] to constitute the use of lethal force?
    With or without a gun?
     
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  10. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    I do, I think age also makes the deadly threat more viable. Say you are jumped by 3 men and you are 60 years old the use of deadly force seems reasonable. Is this what you are asking? I think when one is armed and one is not the determination of deadly threat is no longer assumed but implied putting the burden on the armed to justify the use of deadly force and to ensure authorities would view it as justified. When I say assumed I mean when both are armed as opposed to not.
     
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  11. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    It's called ''Disparity of force''. And it justifies lethal force.

    If I was in a fight with two, three or more men. It means I can open up with all I have.
     
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  12. Larrytpdx

    Larrytpdx Portland, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Excellent advice!
     
  13. David Bowman

    David Bowman Beaverton OR Archer Defense Concepts

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    The fact that you have your gun in your hand means that someone in close proximity to your person did something that made you think you needed to get it in your hand.

    In our classes we don't teach anyone to say "halt!" or "stop!" Once the gun is out, you are in a gun-fight. It is time to get moving and shooting and on the good side of the OODA loop. No need to include in the memo to the bad guy that you are about to be the cause of their bad day.

    Nothing you might find in most areas of your life is going to stop bullets. Don't worry about getting behind something that stops bullets, start putting your bullets into the face and chest of the person that scared you enough to cause you to draw your gun.

    Shoot them to the ground, reload, and check for additional threats.
     
  14. Larrytpdx

    Larrytpdx Portland, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Exactly.
     
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Sub Light Speed Well-Known Member

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    Good question Medic! I would view multiple attackers as a threat depending on the proximity from them to me, Body language, and observed intent. These would determine if I were to draw, and then decide if I need to end it that way! If they look like they are going to rush me, especially a flanking rush, then the closest gets it first! after that, then decide if further action is required!
     
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  16. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    What I'm saying is. You should know that a threat from multiple attackers. Changes the rules.

    And I would not fight three men like one.
    With One there's no broken elbows, necks, or throats. And I won't extract your eye's with my thumbs.

    Multiple attackers? The rules change.

    Besides my hands. If I have a gun, knife, or ever a length of two x four.
    That's even better! I would go for full affect.

    Sorry. I can't take the chance that ''one one of many'' attackers rejoins the fight.

    Two or more?
    Call an ambulance!
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
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  17. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's the mob rule when acting in self defense.

    If there's two or more attackers then if your carrying it's more likely they will over power you and take your firearm.

    If anybody attacks me one person or a hundred I'm assuming they are intending to do major bodily injury or death.

    I try to deescalate any tense situation or try to avoid it so if it comes to getting physical I'm assuming the worst.
    And acting accordingly.
     
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  18. Larrytpdx

    Larrytpdx Portland, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Remember the first rule of Gunfighting . . . “Have A Gun!”
    ~Jeff Cooper
     
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  19. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Sub Light Speed Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Mob rules clear you to act with force up to and including deadly force. Here is something that happened to my Dad at Christmas time several years back. Three cholos decide to try and mug him thinking 80 year old target, lots of cash, and slow reflexes make it easy. Two of them brandish blades and make there demands! Dad is still in very good shape, well practiced, and is carrying! He draws and points his pistol in the face of the closest threat! Has the threat to my Dad met the requirements needed to use deadly force? All three fled the seen like little girls, and dad didn't need to shoot any one, but what if he did?
     
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  20. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    If those cholos were within 21 ft with a blade out they would have met the coroner.
     
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