Recommendations 30 yo daughter going to Denali NP for summer: Pistol/Revolver

[Koda]

the old bear gun debate never dies...
the best thing you can do is carry bear spray and a gun as a backup. The last thing you want to do is shoot a bear with any pistol when you don't need to, most encounters are random encounters only and bear spray is best in those cases it keeps the bear at bay and teaches them a lesson.

 

[Argonaut]

That is a misogynist statement and idea. In the west, we don't think of or treat our women like that. I have a great grandmother that rode onto the field that the indians and British were in the process of massacring an entire settlement to throw my wounded grandfather over the saddle and take him to safety. They both died the next day. I served with many and other than upper body strength, they are as tough or tougher than men toe to toe. If she is voluntarily going on an adventure like described, she will be able to do whatever is nessisary. Why do you think any mother in nature or our civil society is nothing to mess with. They are every bit as protectionist as the male of the species. I don't like weak individuals reguardless of sex, or race or anything else. Another one of my distant grandmother's financed the first crusade and led the second, married the king of France and after he died the King of England, she was the mother of Richard the lionhearted and king John of England. She was as tough as anyone in her time and that was 1000 years ago. ...............(response is for Taco_Lean)

 

[Geardo]

Man you live in this fantasy world where everyone is as tough and brave and calm as you, and never misses a shot, and that just ain't the case.

And sure, if using my basic brain function of catagorizing how different groups and genders respond to things makes me a sexist, thats fine, but statistically this lady probably isn't a stone cold killer with lady balls of steel.

And to be honest, my response would be the same for a 105 lb MAN, because anyone who ways 105 lbs is not that strong and probably doesn't spend a lot of time doing woods activities.

 

[Argonaut]

Man you live in this fantasy world where everyone is as tough and brave and calm as you, and never misses a shot, and that just ain't the case.

And sure, if using my basic brain function of catagorizing how different groups and genders respond to things makes me a sexist, thats fine, but statistically this lady probably isn't a stone cold killer with lady balls of steel.

And to be honest, my response would be the same for a 105 lb MAN, because anyone who ways 105 lbs is not that strong and probably doesn't spend a lot of time doing woods activities.

How strong do you need to be to point and pull a 4 lb trigger........that is what guns do best.....equalize. Even a sword does that. It is all mental until you have to move something heavy. Off course people miss shots but a 6 round revolver has quick accurate follow up shots. How many times have you been shot at or tested under real stress? I have been hundreds of times and the size of the person next to me has much less importance than there mental strength. Tools and training make the difference. I have retold the story here before about training officers in the LA PD training academy shortly after I left the military. I was talking with an old grizzled sergeant training Officer with decades of street experiance. He said he was much more afraid of a revolver shooter than someone with a 15 shot semi auto. The semi auto guy will spray around and be much more likely to shoot a bystander than the intended target, the Revolver shooter will take aim and kill you. That has also been my experiance in the field.

 

[Geardo]

Off course people miss shots but a 6 round revolver has quick accurate follow up shots.

Not in something like a .44 mag or .454 casual. Those are large heavy guns with lots of recoil. Strength does come into play with handguns, and especially handguns that large.

 

[bbbass]

Not in something like a .44 mag or .454 casual. Those are large heavy guns with lots of recoil. Strength does come into play with handguns, and especially handguns that large.

My 76yr old wife shoots full blown .357... don't run from her, you'll just die tired. She's a tough farm girl. Much much much tougher than me. Can work my butt into the ground. I'm sure she could/would do whatever is needed of her... probably throw a car off my belly, then proceed to cuss me out.

 

[Geardo]

My 76yr old wife shoots full blown .357... don't run from her, you'll just die tired. She's a tough farm girl. Much much much tougher than me. Can work my butt into the ground. I'm sure she could/would do whatever is needed of her... probably throw a car off my belly, then proceed to cuss me out.

Exceptions don't make the rule.

 

[DeanMk]

Ended up going to Sequoia NP in Cali and omits the handgun for Cali right now; she'll do 2 months in the back country but the defense issue is still on the table. She knows of more fear from 2 footed creatures there. She has a preference for the Ruger SP 101 with hard cast bullets for bears. She just purchased the Ruger LC9 s and would carry BB Woodsman Ammo; but Cali handgun law is a very big problem as are their citizens going nuts on the sight of a handgun. She just picked up a Gerber Survival Knife for the time being. She handles 357 just fine. I do not like her being out there without a handgun but Cali is a problem.

Then, when she can carry it, be assured of her safety with the .357.
Far better to be competent with a medium caliber magnum, then not competent with large caliber magnum.

Dean

 

[Certaindeaf]

granny clampett would just use a cast iron skillet, especially in California

 

[bbbass]

Exceptions don't make the rule.

No, around here it's normal. It's not until you get to Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, Calif, that you encounter weak millenials that can't or won't do anything or are afraid to try. Must be those lattes.

Argo is telling it right, there is a huge diff between practice and emergencies.

You'd be surprised at what people of slight stature are capable of... are fighter pilots an exception to the rule? Are jockeys an exception to the rule? What rule? Who made up this rule? God certainly didn't.

It's all in the mind and attitude Taco.

 

[Koda]

the problem with these "best bear gun" debates is we get caught up on our favorite gun choice and forget about the real solution, avoiding bears in the first place. Thousands of people hike in griz country every year and come out fine, sure bring a gun in case but read up on hiking in bear country protocols, take bear spray too and you'll come home with some really cools photos and an adventure to tell, having never fired your wonder gun.

 

[Geardo]

Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, Calif,

These seem to be the places I get stuck in, so in my experience, yeah the majority of people are complete wimps. But honestly, even the tough people aren't very good shots usually.

 

[bbbass]

These seem to be the places I get stuck in, so in my experience, yeah the majority of people are complete wimps. But honestly, even the tough people aren't very good shots usually.

I feel for you man.

 

[Argonaut]

These seem to be the places I get stuck in, so in my experience, yeah the majority of people are complete wimps. But honestly, even the tough people aren't very good shots usually.

Doesn't take a great shot to defend yourself from a 12 foot bear at 5 yards.

 

[Geardo]

Doesn't take a great shot to defend yourself from a 12 foot bear at 5 yards.

Pretty sure it does if you want to hit in in the brain or spine, as in if you don't want to get mauled.

 

[Argonaut]

Pretty sure it does if you want to hit in in the brain or spine, as in if you don't want to get mauled.

Have you ever seen the skull of a Brown bear.......(off course you haven't) it will deflect most large caliber rifle shots. It is tapered and 1 inch thick in some places. It is like shooting armor plate. You are not going to hit a spine either. Are you a hunter? Or some sort of urban ninja? I suspect the latter.

 

[Geardo]

Have you ever seen the skull of a Brown bear.......(off course you haven't) it will deflect most large caliber rifle shots. It is tapered and 1 inch thick in some places. It is like shooting armor plate. You are not going to hit a spine either. Are you a hunter? Or some sort of urban ninja? I suspect the latter.

So where are you going to shoot it? Not much real estate available when you are facing a charge.

By "spine" I mean punching through from the front, or maybe along the back during a charge.

I am a hunter. Deer, pig, lots of birds.

I have hear all the stories about pigs like you just described with bears. But when I actually test the theory, like shooting the 200+ lbs boar skull I shot with my .40 to see if it was actually the bullet deflector everyone said it was (it wasn't)

Or talking with pest removal agents that kill tons of pig with .223.

It is all bullbubblegum. I am pretty convinced The fudd stories I hear about bullet proof animals are actually people missing. The type of people always talking about fuddy five, or huge rifles, and ultra magnum handguns are the people that may be able to shoot slow, but they never shoot fast or under pressure or at a moving target.

 

[Argonaut]

The first bear I ever shot, I was 18 years old, the bear was running away and I severed his femoral arterie, he ran 50 feet. The next one was a very large bear that I shot in the heart at 250 yards and she rolled over with her feet in the air. I shot 2 brown bears, one at 20 yards or so with my 458 Win Mag manlicher carbine, hit him in the chest as he was coming towards me, the bullet exited his rectum after severing his major arteries the top of his heart and pretty well destroying his area above the diaphragm and filling his entire organ cavity with blood. The other one I shot at 50 yards through the lungs and he went down hard. No one takes a head shot on a large bear unless you are so close to shoot him in the eye or mouth. The angle deflects bullets like radar hitting a stealth fighter. So, how many bear have you killed?..........and I have never had to shoot one twice.

 

[Koda]

I'll agree with Taco on needing to hit a CNS shot to put the bear down... Ive seen a wounded bear run and you don't want to wound a bear in pistol range. This is why I think bear spray would be my first choice, you don't have to aim and it blinds him with severe pain and teaches them a lesson.

in this report bear spray had a 90% success rate with minor injuries, 84% of incidents stopped the attack with a gun. That might not seem significant but while there are plenty of stories out of people defending themselves with a gun what usually not mentioned is sobering: bears inflicted injuries on humans in 56 percent of the time a gun was used. And of course those 16% dont have a story to tell...
pretty telling about the need for an accurate shot.
Wayback Machine

 

[Koda]

The first bear I ever shot, I was 18 years old, the bear was running away and I severed his femoral arterie, he ran 50 feet. The next one was a very large bear that I shot in the heart at 250 yards and she rolled over with her feet in the air. I shot 2 brown bears, one at 20 yards or so with my 458 Win Mag manlicher carbine, hit him in the chest as he was coming towards me, the bullet exited his rectum after severing his major arteries the top of his heart and pretty well destroying his area above the diaphragm and filling his entire organ cavity with blood. The other one I shot at 50 yards through the lungs and he went down hard. No one takes a head shot on a large bear unless you are so close to shoot him in the eye or mouth. The angle deflects bullets like radar hitting a stealth fighter. So, how many bear have you killed?

In all fairness these are hunting stories and with what sounds like a pretty massively powerful rifle capable of running clean thru a huge brown bear.

I think were talking about hiking or some similar recreation where one is not out to carry such a rifle and is only armed with a pistol. I'll guess your same stories would have a much different outcome...