Question on mounting a gun safe on a second floor

[spitball]

I would just screw it down with minimal cost and damage to the house. It's on the second floor and weighs 450# empty. No drug addict is going to spend the time trying to break into it let alone be able to move it or organize the logistics required to steal it. Statistically your guns will be stolen by someone who you know and they will already know what you have, when you are not there and probably even the combo. Besides, if your guns are taken it will most likely be with a warrant and a hand-truck because Patty Murray and her cohorts are probably going to be the ones who do it. (They have deep pockets and unlimited equipment and manpower to unhook you safe) Use your safe as a decoy so they don't really search to hard, hide your "go bag" and your "Just in Case rifle" elsewhere and leave a cheap, throwaway, single shot out in the open to distract anyone who is there to steal or confiscate. It works on junkies and feds.

 

[Kid@Heart]

Unless you live in an area with no building codes (rare these days), your local building code is likely based on the UBC which specifies a minium per/sqfoot floor loading. A dance party with 30 people in a room is a much tougher test for this.

I wouldn't use the dance party example.

Hyatt Regency walkway collapse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with your statement on the UBC. However, building codes evolve over time and your house was probably built to the UBC or local codes in effect at that time. A good example is the requirement for significant insulation in a house built in 2013 vs. almost no insulation in a 1940's home.

I would tend to agree with NWSafe on putting a 450# safe on the second floor, if it wasn't for the whole "drilling the joist" issue. I just wouldn't be willing to put my company reputation and future on the line with a statement on the internet without the credentials to back it up. You have told some Do-It-Yourselfer it is okay to randomly drop this steel plate on the floor and lag it down. If the floor structure fails or the safe is later stolen because the plate didnt hold, your company may be liable- BECAUSE YOU GUARANTEED THE INSTALLATION.

I'm not a lawyer or an insurance agent. I am a cynic.

cynic (Definition)
n.
1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.

 

[UncleSugar]

I ended up lag bolting the safe to a floor joist on one side, installed some toggle bolts on the other. Unfortunately the bolt pattern on the bottom of the safe does not match the joist spacing on my floor.
I used spitballs approach, I agree with that assessment, that thing was 450# empty, which it is far from now. I think we give the common thief way too much credit.
I actually am a licensed Engineer in the State of Oregon, while this is not my area of expertise, I did check with some colleagues that are Structural Engineers, floor loading should not be an issue. I can't think of anything harder on a 2nd story floor than a waterbed, and I am guilty of having one of those on a second story for years.

One bit of buyers remorse, next time I will purchase a Liberty or similar higher quality safe. After paying to get this moved upstairs, and contemplating upgrading the lock, I would have been much better off with the Liberty. Live and Learn.

Thanks for all of the advice.

 

[duane black]

I ended up lag bolting the safe to a floor joist on one side, installed some toggle bolts on the other. Unfortunately the bolt pattern on the bottom of the safe does not match the joist spacing on my floor.
I used spitballs approach, I agree with that assessment, that thing was 450# empty, which it is far from now. I think we give the common thief way too much credit.
I actually am a licensed Engineer in the State of Oregon, while this is not my area of expertise, I did check with some colleagues that are Structural Engineers, floor loading should not be an issue. I can't think of anything harder on a 2nd story floor than a waterbed, and I am guilty of having one of those on a second story for years.

One bit of buyers remorse, next time I will purchase a Liberty or similar higher quality safe. After paying to get this moved upstairs, and contemplating upgrading the lock, I would have been much better off with the Liberty. Live and Learn.

Thanks for all of the advice.

I wouldn't sweat the quality too much( within reason ). Safes only keep honest people out, and MAYBE the thief too smoked or in too much of a hurry to get into it out anyway.

I watched a locksmith make startling quick work out of a large early 80s dial combo safe. As he was getting it opened he stated it was a very nice lock, he had it opened 10 minutes later. This was a family members safe we had to open when he passed.

My dad who is a cop BTW told me he could get mine opened in under a minute. I said yeah right , how the hell would yo do that ?

He said I would put a gun to your daughters head and tell you to open it.

Made me think differently about my safe, and my daughters grandfather.

Thanks for sharing your solution, projects are fun.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[wolfcreek]

I wouldn't use the dance party example.

Hyatt Regency walkway collapse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with your statement on the UBC. However, building codes evolve over time and your house was probably built to the UBC or local codes in effect at that time. A good example is the requirement for significant insulation in a house built in 2013 vs. almost no insulation in a 1940's home.

I would tend to agree with NWSafe on putting a 450# safe on the second floor, if it wasn't for the whole "drilling the joist" issue. I just wouldn't be willing to put my company reputation and future on the line with a statement on the internet without the credentials to back it up. You have told some Do-It-Yourselfer it is okay to randomly drop this steel plate on the floor and lag it down. If the floor structure fails or the safe is later stolen because the plate didnt hold, your company may be liable- BECAUSE YOU GUARANTEED THE INSTALLATION.

I'm not a lawyer or an insurance agent. I am a cynic.

cynic (Definition)
n.
1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.

Thanks for clarifying, I do see your point about the possible problem of getting this type of information from an interested party. It's like if you go to an RV dealer and ask if your truck will carry the pickup camper you're looking at. The salesman will likely say yes even if a strict reading of the rules will put the rig thousands of pounds overweight.

I'm pretty familiar with the walkway collapse... a great illustration of how engineering (long continuous threaded rods) was modified by expediency (substituting easier to source and transport shorter threaded rods) in a way that looks equivalent at first but on closer inspection is not. Not sure how this invalidates my point about a crowd being harder on a floor than a safe though.

 

[NW SAFE]

I ended up lag bolting the safe to a floor joist on one side, installed some toggle bolts on the other. Unfortunately the bolt pattern on the bottom of the safe does not match the joist spacing on my floor.
I used spitballs approach, I agree with that assessment, that thing was 450# empty, which it is far from now. I think we give the common thief way too much credit.
I actually am a licensed Engineer in the State of Oregon, while this is not my area of expertise, I did check with some colleagues that are Structural Engineers, floor loading should not be an issue. I can't think of anything harder on a 2nd story floor than a waterbed, and I am guilty of having one of those on a second story for years.

One bit of buyers remorse, next time I will purchase a Liberty or similar higher quality safe. After paying to get this moved upstairs, and contemplating upgrading the lock, I would have been much better off with the Liberty. Live and Learn.

Thanks for all of the advice.

Good to hear you got one installed, hope you enjoy it.