Protocol For a Private Gun Transfer.

[DuneHopper]

I was searching the site( the search here never works for me and never has) as a family member wants to sell one of their rifles, and wasn't sure what to tell them was a Protocol For a Private Gun Transfer. Obviously you meet and decide the sale price.
And pick a FFL as well as decide how fees are paid.

But the changing of funds, and handing over of the firearms how does this play out.
I am of little help as I don't do this specifically so not sure what a good protocol is to tell him.

Thanks

PS: Me was thinking buyer does BGC, funds transfer to the seller then firearm is handed over.
But may be way of on proper protocol.

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[The Heretic]

Generally what I have done is meet at the FFL, examine the firearm, if I like it then I give them the money and initiate the BGC/paperwork. Usually the seller sticks around until the BGC has finished.

 

[Medic!]

You would get the money before you sent a gun to a buyers FFL in Florida?
No difference when the buyers FFL is standing right in front of you both.

In the past I didn't care when I was paid.
Then one day I started the transfer, selling a gun to a fellow member that hadn't paid me yet. The transfer was delayed because the system was down. As is all to common.

The gun was no longer mine. It was the custody of the FFL. And they were representing the buyer.
So two days later they could call him and tell him to come get the gun. They could care less if you were paid. That's for you to work out.

Try and demand the money after you handed the gun to the FFL and you have no leverage to ever get paid.


In my case the fellow member was cleared in four hours or so. And paid up.
He was a saint for wasting his morning with me. And not just taking off until the FFL called him.

I also think he would have called me when the FFL called him to pick it up, if it took a day or two.
But you don't always get that feeling about people.

Now there are things you could try and do in retaliation.
But getting paid in advance is the cleanest way to get things done.

And that's the way I do things these days. Both as a seller. And a buyer.

 

[DirectDrive]

You would get the money before you sent a gun to a buyers FFL in Florida?
No difference when the buyers FFL is standing right in front of you both.

In the past I didn't care when I was paid.
Then one day I started the transfer, selling a gun to a fellow member that hadn't paid me yet. The transfer was delayed because the system was down. As is all to common.

The gun was no longer mine. It was the custody of the FFL. And they were representing the buyer.
So two days later they could call him and tell him to come get the gun. They could care less if you were paid. That's for you to work out.

Try and demand the money after you handed the gun to the FFL and you have no leverage to ever get paid.


In my case the fellow member was cleared in four hours or so. And paid up.
He was a saint for wasting his morning with me. And not just taking off until the FFL called him.

I also think he would have called me when the FFL called him to pick it up, if it took a day or two.
But you don't always get that feeling about people.

Now there are things you could try and do in retaliation.
But getting paid in advance is the cleanest wat to get things done.

And that's the way I do things these days. Both as a seller. And a buyer.

Excellent post ^^^

OP, read that whole thing carefully and take Medic!'s advice.

 

[AMT]

I was searching the site( the search here never works for me and never has) as a family member wants to sell one of their rifles, and wasn't sure what to tell them was a Protocol For a Private Gun Transfer. Obviously you meet and decide the sale price.
And pick a FFL as well as decide how fees are paid.

But the changing of funds, and handing over of the firearms how does this play out.
I am of little help as I don't do this specifically so not sure what a good protocol is to tell him.

Thanks

PS: Me was thinking buyer does BGC, funds transfer to the seller then firearm is handed over.
But may be way of on proper protocol.

Remember the time before I-594 (in WA) and SB 941 (in OR)? You agree to meet with the person. If you don't suspect the buyer of being a felon, they hand you the money and you give them the item. NO FFL transfer needed. This is still legal in many states. (You never mentioned where your family member is located).

If needed to ship, I personally would never ship a firearm without receiving money first. Then taking the bank check/money order to a bank first to verify that it is valid. After all it good and cleared, then shipping the firearm to an FFL.

If it makes your family member feel better, meet at an FFL. Receive the cash first then walk to the FFL for paperwork/transfer. (If they buyer wants to pay by check, make the buyer go to the bank and cash the check and bring cash back with them).

 

[po18guy]

Trying to recall from my FFL days. It varies state by state. It's a confusing mish-mash of onerous requirements intended to punish the law abiding, IMO. Since the GCA '68 was passed, crime has increased substantially. So, did the GCA '68 actually cause more crime?

Anyway, from the Wiki:

"If a person purchases a firearm from a private individual who is not a licensed dealer, the purchaser is not required in most states to complete a Form 4473. Some states (such as California and Colorado) require individual sellers to sell through dealers.

These forms are given the same status as a tax return under the Privacy Act of 1974 and cannot be disclosed by the government to private parties or other government officials except in accordance with the Privacy Act. Individual dealers possessing a copy of the form are not subject to the Privacy Act's restrictions on disclosure. Dealers are required to maintain completed forms for 20 years in the case of completed sales, and for 5 years where the sale was disapproved as a result of the NICS check."

Best to call an FFL dealer or your state AG's office for clarification.

 

[308]

Postal Money Orders are good for long distance dealings since (1) it proves the buyer is legit, and (2) the seller will get cornholed for mail fraud by the USPS Postal Inspectors if that seller decides to act in a fraudulent manner.

 

[LuckySG]

Check with the FFL in advance what the fees are before you show up. They vary wildly from not too much to a percentage of the value of the firearm being transferred. Anything to keep the sale on track is important to consider.

 

[P7M13]

@DuneHopper , I'm not exactly sure what your question is. Is your family member a cousin or further removed, or is your family member out of state?
Otherwise, to me, there is no question here. Exchange cash for firearm, and call it a good day!

 

[Fast Eddie]

I would have a discussion with the seller and the FFL up front. If it all goes smoothly, no big deal. But it doesn't always go smoothly.

What will they do if you get a delay? Will you hand them the money and wait to hear from the FFL while the FFL holds the gun?

What if they deny you? It's happening more frequently and the appeal can take a while.

If the seller or the FFL decide that they are going to hand the gun back to the seller. The denial stands, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if is without remedy, but you will probably have to hire a lawyer. You don't want an uninformed seller or FFL mucking up your civil rights because they don't understand the process.

 

[titsonritz]

I have sold plenty of guns out of state, it is no different. Get paid in advance, buyer doesn't pass a BGC that's on them, they now have a weapon on consignment at the FFL. Not my problem. Done.

 

[ThemGunsThough]

For me:
-Initial contact and price agreement
-Meet at FFL
-Inspect gun and if all is good then handover the cash or trade.
-Background check
-Say 'Bye Felicia'

Done.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Money.
BGC.
Wave goodbye.

If the buyer gets delayed or denied you can be a swell guy and give him/her their money back. Or treat it like an online sale where the problem and expense are all theirs.

If it's a close family member nearby, skip the whole sordid bizness... gift it to them. In turn they can make a contribution to your campaign for... whatever.

 

[TTSX]

As a buyer, I prefer to pay the seller after the BCG has gone through. Though I often buy things along the line of "was my dead grandpa's/uncle's, was part of a trade" etc, and I'm only buying for a couple hundred or so. If anything got sticky because of that, I don't want to be the only person left around to question and keeping them waiting on their money helps with that. Otherwise I like to buy my more modern guns new as they're not that much more expensive than a used one and I can be confident they weren't "torture tested" or feed a steady diet of +p+++ reloads. All in how each party is comfortable, really.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If they are a Nigerian prince you can just mail it to them.. they're good for it.





lol, not really

 

[DirectDrive]

As a buyer, I prefer to pay the seller after the BCG has gone through. Though I often buy things along the line of "was my dead grandpa's/uncle's, was part of a trade" etc, and I'm only buying for a couple hundred or so. If anything got sticky because of that, I don't want to be the only person left around to question and keeping them waiting on their money helps with that. Otherwise I like to buy my more modern guns new as they're not that much more expensive than a used one and I can be confident they weren't "torture tested" or feed a steady diet of +p+++ reloads. All in how each party is comfortable, really.

Did you mean "after the weapon clears as not stolen/lost" etc. ?

 

[DuneHopper]

Seems in these instances as it varies slightly on how others do it, if cash is first would be prudent to be a that got a bill of sale that way if it doesn't go thru or was delayed,

 

[TTSX]

More or less, yes. Though at exactly what time that happens, I can't say. What I do know for sure is that once I've passed my BCG, all is well, the firearm is legally mine (not stolen) and I hand over the agreed upon sum of money

 

[Medic!]

If you pay cash before the background check then fail to qualify for a transfer?
How is that the problem of the seller?

In that case. The person selling you the gun will need to pay the FFL to transfer the gun back to him!
After the deduction for all that, he is obligated to give you back the balance of the money you paid him.

Weather he dose or not?

And like I said earlier. I pay and collect before the transfer.
But make the seller hang around a while in case the gun I'm buying is stolen. Then He can leave for all I care.
Even before the transfer is complete.

If the gun is stolen the police will show up and have a nice talk with him. [I've seen it].
And getting your money back in there presence is not a problem.

 

[SnapShot]

go to FFL - buyer fills out a 4473
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
FFL checks sellors ID, and they fill out the Transferor sections , 34-37 on the form.

check before hand what they might want to do if delayed/denied. I have a CPL, but have been delayed in WA. I was buying, and got a delay I knew it was going to go through, but didnt want to drive another 2 hours out of my way when it came back as a go ahead a day or two later, so i had the original FFL ship it to another FF near my home, when I went to pick it up... i was charged 'tax" on the item because it came from another FFL at that point and not a private party.


gun store protocol is slightly different than you posted originally, you show up, decide to buy, then PAY, then fill out form, because the FFL calls in the serial number of the firearm you are attempting to buy. then a decision is made.

that way monies has already changed hands, and when the BCG comes back, as far as the fed's are concerned the weapon is yours, it's a done deal.