Pre-Crime Policing Disgruntled Man Update

[Father of four]

That is the biggest problem that bothers me the most. "

Officer safety is more important then civil rights..."

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Hey, I said 100 years, so I was three short. But in all honesty we need to rein in our government.

As it is, it is unfixable. Both major parties are traitors to the BORs and Constitution. Vote in the demoncats and they destroy us from within with blatant socialism/communism. Vote in the republirats and they get us into endless and insane wars that are not in our interests, and work towards a police state. They are two sides of the Orwellian coin and are owned by the same masters. The noose is tightening. This is not going to end in a pretty way (at least that's the way the average Homer Simpson will see it) Here's an interesting video that might enlighten a few people:

<broken link removed>

Part 2
<broken link removed>

 

[zeezee]

Let me guess a lawyer or a cop is chiming in here...

Fact...most peeps think a traffic ticket is a civil matter.....oh really? Then when you don't pay the fine or show up...it becomes a criminal charge...why is that? ALL matters prosecuted, and enforced by LEO are criminal matters...even a speeding ticket...and if you appeal a speeding ticket high enough you will be talking to the DA.

Fact: When a SWAT team stacks up in front of your door...does it matter if it's 'civil or criminal', whether you have a warrant, whether they think your nuts, whether they got a hot tip that you got fired, and flipped off the boss on the way out, that your neighbor 'thinks' your a 'trouble maker with guns about to flip out' ?

The only thing that matters, is someone told the SWAT team to suit up and kick the door down...and you can scream bloody murder that it's a civil matter, that your sane, that you didn't mean to call your boss a bozo...when the flash bangs and gas get thrown in...None of this 'civil/criminal' legalese means anything...

The issue here is whether LEOs should take 'preventative measures' to basically 'research' whether a person, 'might or might not' be a threat to himself or others, or is or not 'going to' commit a crime.

SWAT get's called to the house, rather then a psychologist because 'officer safety' is more important then civil rights...overwhelming force, victory by any and all means, control the situation hard and fast, cuff everyone up...haul them away first....

Then probe, drug test, evaluate, blood test, research, grill/interview...then decide if that person should be released...

They will decide this for you...safety first.

The gestapo worked the same way, funny how things come around to bite us in the a$$ when we don't learn our history. And to most LEO's you are guilty until proven otherwise, remember this phrase, You will hear it again "anything you say can and will be used against you." Not in your defense but to hang you with your own words.
The police have too much power, our government has too much power and this is why come November we need to vote all sitting congressional represenatives out.

 

[SSG]

Well do you guys want a solution? Here it is:

Every single time a bond measure comes up...vote it down
Every time teachers, cops, agencies, want money..vote against it
Every time, someone asks for $, say no.
If they want a war for anything other then a good ol fashioned invasion of the US, say no...

Then start legislation to make them retire at 65 like the rest of us
Make them pay for THEIR Health Insurance too
Cut their pay to minimum wage...let's see how many 'Public Servants' we have left.
Require only one SWAT team per county, not seven up here in LANE

You wanna know what will happen? All of a sudden, no more calls to every guy that quit his job and gave the finger...no more speed traps...what's left are cops actually fighting crime, going to real calls, not sitting around with radar guns...or suiting up for a raid, to get off the treadmill at the station...

Next....require...the USA to make sure that Citizens have access to lot's of cheap ammo...make the 1987 Machine gun thing go away...abolish the tax stamp on class III stuff...no more background checks, other then a drivers license and a computer check to see if your a felon, nut ect...no more taking down of serial numbers, white cards sent off to see if your 'stockpiling' ect...

Just a thought..

 

[eriknemily]

Well do you guys want a solution? Here it is:

Every single time a bond measure comes up...vote it down
Every time teachers, cops, agencies, want money..vote against it
Every time, someone asks for $, say no.
If they want a war for anything other then a good ol fashioned invasion of the US, say no...

Then start legislation to make them retire at 65 like the rest of us
Make them pay for THEIR Health Insurance too
Cut their pay to minimum wage...let's see how many 'Public Servants' we have left.
Require only one SWAT team per county, not seven up here in LANE

You wanna know what will happen? All of a sudden, no more calls to every guy that quit his job and gave the finger...no more speed traps...what's left are cops actually fighting crime, going to real calls, not sitting around with radar guns...or suiting up for a raid, to get off the treadmill at the station...

Next....require...the USA to make sure that Citizens have access to lot's of cheap ammo...make the 1987 Machine gun thing go away...abolish the tax stamp on class III stuff...no more background checks, other then a drivers license and a computer check to see if your a felon, nut ect...no more taking down of serial numbers, white cards sent off to see if your 'stockpiling' ect...

Just a thought..

Sounds like a Christmas wish list. In an ideal world that would be wonderful. I'm not going to hold out hope. Although I do plan on voting AGAINST every incumbent on the ballot this year. And I will most likely vote for anybody BUT a Dem or a Republican.


ps are there any updates on this incident yet?

 

[slideglider]

It's not easy because of reasons like this as well as others.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/03/portland_police_union_files_gr.html

"Portland Police Sgt. Scott Westerman, of the Portland Police Association, said the grievance argues 'that the city is being unreasonable' for seeking to hold negotiating sessions in public or at a city building. "

Substitute teacher, ODOT official, or any other public/ unionized figure for police.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well do you guys want a solution? Here it is:

Every single time a bond measure comes up...vote it down
Every time teachers, cops, agencies, want money..vote against it
Every time, someone asks for $, say no.
If they want a war for anything other then a good ol fashioned invasion of the US, say no...

Then start legislation to make them retire at 65 like the rest of us
Make them pay for THEIR Health Insurance too
Cut their pay to minimum wage...let's see how many 'Public Servants' we have left.
Require only one SWAT team per county, not seven up here in LANE

You wanna know what will happen? All of a sudden, no more calls to every guy that quit his job and gave the finger...no more speed traps...what's left are cops actually fighting crime, going to real calls, not sitting around with radar guns...or suiting up for a raid, to get off the treadmill at the station...

Next....require...the USA to make sure that Citizens have access to lot's of cheap ammo...make the 1987 Machine gun thing go away...abolish the tax stamp on class III stuff...no more background checks, other then a drivers license and a computer check to see if your a felon, nut ect...no more taking down of serial numbers, white cards sent off to see if your 'stockpiling' ect...

Just a thought..

That is all great but it's not going to happen peacefully

 

[tionico]

That is all great but it's not going to happen peacefully

I do NOT want things to get tough, but I d rather have it that way than continue down the path we're now on. Remember, things weren't pretty and peaceful in 1775 and the years following, either. But the tyranny had got to the point it was no longer able to be tolerated. And so the PEOPLE took their hats in hand, bowed to the Brits, and said "alright, you can run over the top of us, kick us out of our houses, keep our powder and shot, close our businesses and towns, garrison your horny redcoats in our homes with our wives and daughters at your service, and take our money for taxes...... oh, wait, no, they were reading from a different playbook, weren't they?

YES it got ugly. When the Brits closed up Boston Harbour and City, confiscating "all" their arms and running them out of town, what did those good people of Boston DO? They secured powder and shot, and stood to protect those with their lives...... the Brits stood their ground....... and the "stupid farmers with their squirrel guns" pressed... and pressed..... and pressed..... and bid them goodbye, never to return. No, it wasn't pretty. But it was necessary.... then.

Which will it be now? Pretty, or necessary? Or will we somehow manage to find peaceful means of throwing off the tyranny that increases weekly?

It may well be that the LEA were within the letter of the law, in taking Mr. Pyles into protective custody for evaluation. But the law allowing them to take someone innocent of any wrongdoing is clearly unconstitutional.... and the LEA clearly were mistaken in their conclusions.. else Mr. Pyles never would have been released in four hours, his lawfully possessed arms restored in person a few days later, breaking ALL records for such return after being taken by police. (I will repeat, there was NO warrant for the search and seizure of this man's home and personal effects. clearly in violation of well-settled law).

Careful with the idea of throwing out ALL incumbents.. there are a few decent representatives serving well. SO-- do some research, learn the voting records, bills supported, authored, etc. DO NOT throw out the good ones. But certainly DO toss the bad ones. If enough get turned out, perhaps new ones seeking office will serve out of fear of their constituents, and not to place their constituents under fear of them. EDUCATE yourself on the specific candidates running for office, whether incumbent or new.

 

[tionico]

Gunner said:

Well, I can't help you if you don't understand what I'm saying.

I feel as if a bunch of guys showed up here with their minds made up, and no amount of truth or logic will change their minds.

Gunner, I showed up here reading what was found in the press, in some other sources, letters and emails from some of those actually involved. For a long time I remained silent, not having sufficient information to come to a decision.

Now more of the story is available, I ahve come to the conclusion that this entire debacle is wrong..... the original source of info fromm ODOT was somewhere between mistaken and vindictive, and LEO did not thoroughly investigate. Now they've got dog doo on their feet, and are stinking the place up pretty badly. This may have been a "civil matter" at the start, but rolling the SWAT team, the early hour of the confrontation, the lies and false promises made to their subject, their illegal search and seizure with no warrant, the speedy release of the "dangerous person" and unprecedented rapid return of the illegally seized arms, all go together to paint a clear picture that the cops blew it. Oh, but they'll hide behind their superiors, interdepartment protocols and memos, he said she said, the guy at ODOT, etc.... but what remains to stink up the southern end of Oregon is that a man, innocent of any wrong doing and with no substantiated foul intent was blasted out of his warm bed early of a morning, taken under threat of more than deadly force to a place he would not have chosen to go, had his home searched and his personal property seized without warrant or justifiable cause.......

I hate to break it to ya, gunner, but these are the ONLY conclusions available based on the now substantial evidence before us. If I were a resident of Medford, Roseburg, Jackson County, I'd be hot, and demanding answers as to WHY, WHO SAID, and HOW can I be sure I, or my neighbour, won't be next. How many of us have ever worked under a boss who was a jerk, or worse? I've had some deliberately provoke, prod, mess with my head, belittle and insult..... which is insane, as no one could reasonably expect such treatment to lead to a high level of production or quality work delivered. But then, I've never worked for a state agency where politics and power plays are often more important than actually fulfilling the designated task quickly and efficiently. And THIS is precisely the root of much of our present financial trouble... too many such "bosses"......

so, Mr. Pyles was subjected to such a boss, and he is not the first to have trouble with this person. Could this person truly be trusted to be objective in his "assessment" of Mr. Pyles' motives, plans, danger status? Seems the real perpetrator here was the report giver, the one the cops perhaps SHOULD have taken into protective custody. And I seriously question whether the law's "investigation" of this report was complete. It certainly was misleading..... leading to the arrest and seizure of what, from all appearances, proved to be an innocent man, no danger to himself or others.

No, I did NOT come into this movie with the plot figured out. Its been more like a Ken Kesey novel, a surprise at every turn, no idea where it was leading. Now I've read this much of it, I've a pretty settled idea of the plot thus far........

Might I suggest it is yourself who has come into this with foregone conclusions.... the cops did their necessary job perfectly and blamelessly..... and are above all criticism.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I wonder at the possibility that during the few days of our victim being disarmed, someone had done a home invasion on him and he was killed...

Just a thought. His inalienable rights taken away, him helpless..

As far as nice and pretty, war never is. It simply becomes necessary when liberty has been stolen by evil bipeds who are intent on tyranny and power grabs. We did not start this, they did, by violating the BORs, Constitution, our inalienable rights, and their oaths of office

We stand in the footsteps of the Founders! We are the good guys!!

One of my ancestors died from wounds got on Lexington Green, April 19th, 1775. If need be, I will follow in his path, because I will not be a slave!

 

[Wheeler44]

One of my ancestors died from wounds got on Lexington Green, April 19th, 1775. If need be, I will follow in his path, because I will not be a slave!

Powerful stuff right there....Folks realizin' that their folks died to give them a great gift...One that we only hold for the future generations....Powerful stuff...Don't let it out of the bottle.....

Oh, I'm a Prescott and a Wheeler.....

 

[Partsproduction]

Careful with the idea of throwing out ALL incumbents.. there are a few decent representatives serving well. SO-- do some research, learn the voting records, bills supported, authored, etc. DO NOT throw out the good ones. But certainly DO toss the bad ones. If enough get turned out, perhaps new ones seeking office will serve out of fear of their constituents, and not to place their constituents under fear of them. EDUCATE yourself on the specific candidates running for office, whether incumbent or new.

You beat me to it. Look at the healthsnare bill, all Republicans in the house stood against it. Look at abortion legislation and parental consent, it's almost always Republicans who stand against infanticide and for parental consent.

90% of the problems in this nation that creep us away from the founders ideas are formed in demonrat minds, and in the minds of rhinos. Vote out those who don't follow the founding fathers. Most Republicans would be more forward for the founders concepts if they knew they didn't have to force them past a bunch of socialist's and marxist's.

 

[U201491]

You beat me to it. Look at the healthsnare bill, all Republicans in the house stood against it. Look at abortion legislation and parental consent, it's almost always Republicans who stand against infanticide and for parental consent.

90% of the problems in this nation that creep us away from the founders ideas are formed in demonrat minds, and in the minds of rhinos. Vote out those who don't follow the founding fathers. Most Republicans would be more forward for the founders concepts if they knew they didn't have to force them past a bunch of socialist's and marxist's.

The biggest thing we all have to do is vote every Dem out of office, and right now true republicans are our only option.
There are too many Fake republicans (in name only to win a race) in office also.
The ideal option would be a third party that stands on solid ground to defend the letter of the Consititution,
but that is only a dream now and voting against all for a 3rd party candidate will do one thing and one thing only,
and that is insure the same damned Dems get reelected, as it still steals votes from the main party
running against the Dem Liberals,
and you can bet they will all turn out to vote for their socialist leaders.
Any vote for a 3 rd party until such a time as there can be a real majority support is defeating to what we have to do.
If you want a 2nd Amendment to stand, then find republicans that are
supportive of your beliefs and campaign to get them elected, support them and work
to get them votes and work to make them win.

The most important thing is to make sure no more liberal socialst/marxist/communists are again elected in this country.
Call them what they are !

Also remind every LEO they have taken an oath to defend the Constitution, every chance you get.
Make them think about what they do in following blind orders.
Even we that were in and are in the military do NOT have to follow unlawful orders.

.

 

[zeezee]

If you care to read the full article I've listed it below. My question is, who snitched him off? Was it the gun sellers with their background/firearms registration check or maybe a friend? My two cents, buy from private parties and do not exchange ANY information.
<broken link removed>

 

[zeezee]

The biggest thing we all have to do is vote every Dem out of office, and right now true republicans are our only option.
There are too many Fake republicans (in name only to win a race) in office also.
The ideal option would be a third party that stands on solid ground to defend the letter of the Consititution,
but that is only a dream now and voting against all for a 3rd party candidate will do one thing and one thing only,
and that is insure the same damned Dems get reelected, as it still steals votes from the main party
running against the Dem Liberals,
and you can bet they will all turn out to vote for their socialist leaders.
Any vote for a 3 rd party until such a time as there can be a real majority support is defeating to what we have to do.
If you want a 2nd Amendment to stand, then find republicans that are
supportive of your beliefs and campaign to get them elected, support them and work
to get them votes and work to make them win.

The most important thing is to make sure no more liberal socialst/marxist/communists are again elected in this country.
Call them what they are !

Also remind every LEO they have taken an oath to defend the Constitution, every chance you get.
Make them think about what they do in following blind orders.
Even we that were in and are in the military do NOT have to follow unlawful orders..

LEO's WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT! LEO"S follow orders! And what is worse, so does our military!!! The president tells his general's to do something it is done, if they don't they are replaced and . . . it is the same with every government organization!!!! Do you really see some 10 year veteran of any government organization telling his superior, that's against the constitution? LOL! Come on, you can't be that naive. I've nothing against cops, have known a couple goods one's but believe me when I say, if they are told to do something they will do it first and question the order later.

 

[U201491]

LEO's WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT! LEO"S follow orders! And what is worse, so does our military!!! The president tells his general's to do something it is done, if they don't they are replaced and . . . it is the same with every government organization!!!! Do you really see some 10 year veteran of any government organization telling his superior, that's against the constitution? LOL! Come on, you can't be that naive. I've nothing against cops, have known a couple goods one's but believe me when I say, if they are told to do something they will do it first and question the order later.

After a few are ordered to turn the sights to Aunt Bee, Uncle dave, Grandma Suzy the tables will change and the orders questioned.
Making all of them think about those posibilities, is what everyone needs to do now. The Oath Keepers made a good start at that but that is not enough. Everyone needs to do that job.
If people don't want to see that day come then the alternative is to replace every Democrat Socialist in Washington and at the local levels beginning now and in November and make sure they NEVER get elected again.
Maybe if every one that gets elected has a mandate to memorize the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights from A to Z the problems would be minimal. That should be mandatory to holding any office in this country.

 

[Stomper]

***OFF TOPIC***


Be advised that socialists aren't exclusive to the Democrat party... I just heard "Limpy" Graham on the radio talking out one side of his mouth about how bad the healthcare plan was and how the "well is poisoned" by the Dems for all the "hijinks" they just did, then in the next breath said he will CONTINUE to work on a "climate change" bill and "cap & tax" with John Kerry... two sides of the same coin!!


***That is all carry on***

 

[zeezee]

***OFF TOPIC***


Be advised that socialists aren't exclusive to the Democrat party... I just heard "Limpy" Graham on the radio talking out one side of his mouth about how bad the healthcare plan was and how the "well is poisoned" by the Dems for all the "hijinks" they just did, then in the next breath said he will CONTINUE to work on a "climate change" bill and "cap & tax" with John Kerry... two sides of the same coin!!


***That is all carry on***

The list is a lot longer than 1. VOTE THEM ALL OUT!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

***OFF TOPIC***


Be advised that socialists aren't exclusive to the Democrat party... I just heard "Limpy" Graham on the radio talking out one side of his mouth about how bad the healthcare plan was and how the "well is poisoned" by the Dems for all the "hijinks" they just did, then in the next breath said he will CONTINUE to work on a "climate change" bill and "cap & tax" with John Kerry... two sides of the same coin!!


***That is all carry on***

Tar and feather all statists!!

 

[zeezee]

Tar and feather all statists!!

I'll raise a glass to that!