Pre-Crime Policing Disgruntled Man Update

[Partsproduction]

Partsproduction is about to learn (again) that the people he's writing to know how to use their ignore feature too when anything involves personnel or medical issues.

Actually your rejoicing in your ignorance again, I sent my first email to the wrong place. There's nothing wrong with being ignorant, we are all ignorant about some things, most of us realize that what we know is infinitely less than there is to know, but rejoicing in it is weird. If you think the police like being called to the mat for unethical or illegal activities you must think we live in 1938 Germany or Stalin's Soviet Union. You like police states?

You'll have to move if you do.

 

[Partsproduction]

I just got through calling the Oregon state senators from that district, left two phone messages and talked with a nice assistant. She had no idea about any of this and as far as I could tell was very interested. I left my phone number and expressed a hope that the three Jackson county district senators would call call me about this.
The lady I talked with agreed with me that a simple phone call to Mr. Pyle would probably have ended the whole thing.

Gunner, to what purpose is all the show of force? You want us 'little' citizens to cower? Does that satisfy your idea of how things ought to be? I just don't understand your position.
Do you want to live in a state where law abiding citizens are afraid of the police?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I just got through calling the Oregon state senators from that district, left two phone messages and talked with a nice assistant. She had no idea about any of this and as far as I could tell was very interested. I left my phone number and expressed a hope that the three Jackson county district senators would call call me about this.
The lady I talked with agreed with me that a simple phone call to Mr. Pyle would probably have ended the whole thing.

Gunner, to what purpose is all the show of force? You want us 'little' citizens to cower? Does that satisfy your idea of how things ought to be? I just don't understand your position.
Do you want to live in a state where law abiding citizens are afraid of the police?

I have (commiefornia) and it's truly scary

 

[zeezee]

Gunner made me realize I must complain and demand answers to how it happened. In a "free" society wherein the police work for us we (Of course) do have a right to demand answers to this kind of injustice, but talking about it endlessly in a firearms forum is, indeed, probably futile. My letter writing campaign has begun.

My letter writing campaign has begun Ahhh, here lies the answer. Write everyone! The NRA, the Oath Keepers, all your senators and congressmen, the govenor, the mayor of the town or city this incident happened in as well as the police chief. Demand that all the officers involved be dismissed immeadiately! "Just following orders" does not make it right! Unconstitutional orders are just that and the law enforcement community needs to get behind the PEOPLE and not our corrupt socialist government.

 

[zeezee]

I just got through calling the Oregon state senators from that district, left two phone messages and talked with a nice assistant. She had no idea about any of this and as far as I could tell was very interested. I left my phone number and expressed a hope that the three Jackson county district senators would call call me about this.
The lady I talked with agreed with me that a simple phone call to Mr. Pyle would probably have ended the whole thing.

Gunner, to what purpose is all the show of force? You want us 'little' citizens to cower? Does that satisfy your idea of how things ought to be? I just don't understand your position.
Do you want to live in a state where law abiding citizens are afraid of the police?

Why in the name of God would anyone need to call this United States Citizen? Because he got fired? No. Because he bought guns? No. Than why? Our government needs to get the . . . . out of our daily lives! Do not the LEO's in that town/city have anything better to do? And please don't tell me there isn't any crime or criminals to keep them busy. And if the city is such a peaceful happy place, why do they need such a large policing force? Fire them all!

 

[Partsproduction]

Gunner implied that if I let the police department know how upset I was I would be face down in the dirt with guns pointed at me.

It hasn't happened yet. If it does then it's truly too late for this country. We the people are their masters, not the other way around!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Why in the name of God would anyone need to call this United States Citizen? Because he got fired? No. Because he bought guns? No. Than why? Our government needs to get the . . . . out of our daily lives! Do not the LEO's in that town/city have anything better to do? And please don't tell me there isn't any crime or criminals to keep them busy. And if the city is such a peaceful happy place, why do they need such a large policing force? Fire them all!

If nothing else I bet a roundup of illegal aliens ALA Joe Arpaio would keep 'em busy for a while

 

[zeezee]

Gunner implied that if I let the police department know how upset I was I would be face down in the dirt with guns pointed at me.

Maybe he knows something we don't, but I believe polite respectful dialoug with anyone in power can not hurt. But there are many other outlets right at your finger tips such as the mayor, the govenor, state senators and represenatives, especially in an election year. Find out who is up for reelection, ask to speak to them and if they just blow you off find out who is running against them and try them. To give up just on the say so of an internet 'friend' is wasteful.

 

[SSG]

This whole thing kind of re-enforces the idea, that the farther you live out in the middle of nowhere, the less taxes you pay, the less govt you have to deal with, the less peeps that might point a finger at you, ect ect....

 

[slideglider]

You always pay. Nothin's free. The price tag isn't always where you think it is or in a denomination you can easily recognize, but it's there.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner implied that if I let the police department know how upset I was I would be face down in the dirt with guns pointed at me.

Please show where I implied that? I'll be waiting.

I never even thought it and still don't. I believe that if you approach any of these people in a rude and demanding manner that you will get nowhere because that's human nature. I also believe that you won't get your information because it's all confidential employment or medical information, by law. How hard is that?

It hasn't happened yet. If it does then it's truly too late for this country. We the people are their masters, not the other way around!

You aren't above the law either. You can't ask for and expect to get employment or medical information which is sealed from you by confidentiality laws. All of the real story here is within those records.

I actually don't think it's fair for the press and the public and Mr. Pyles to be able to criticize ODOT, police agencies and a hospital and give details from their perspective whether true or untrue, but for the accused agencies to have to remain silent.

Did anyone consider that maybe the police would just love to tell their side of the story? After all, according to the news, they received an "alarm" from ODOT.

I have a question about whether Mr. Pyles was treated fairly and with reason, but my questions are pointed at ODOT who, according to the press, sounded the alarm.

The swat team was there to show overwhelming force in an attempt to avoid any possible violence, not to cause violence. If the police show up in the form of a couple of plain clothed detectives, a BG is far more apt to think he can shoot it out with them. I'm not saying that Mr. Pyles would have been violent in any circumstance, I'm just saying what human nature is and why the show of force is used.

If there is a lawsuit by Mr. Pyles then all information will be public under the rules of discovery and the public's right to know what's in the courts. Then the whole story will come out. If the police were wrong, they'll pay.

I will say this. If Mr. Pyles doesn't file suit, then we might guess that he doesn't have much of a case. Either way, we won't know the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" until this whole thing plays out.

 

[svxr8dr]

You know what Gunner, maybe the police should have thought a little more that they may be unable to tell their side of the story if they send a SWAT team to roust a guy out of bed who didn't commit any crimes. You don't get it both ways. I bet law enforcement would have had a much easier time had they sent a couple officers over for an interview or even made a simple telephone call. Or even both. Everyone probably could have told their stories then.

 

[coloneltim]

You know what Gunner, maybe the police should have thought a little more that they may be unable to tell their side of the story if they send a SWAT team to roust a guy out of bed who didn't commit any crimes. You don't get it both ways. I bet law enforcement would have had a much easier time had they sent a couple officers over for an interview or even made a simple telephone call. Or even both. Everyone probably could have told their stories then.

Absolutely! Amen!

 

[Gunner3456]

You know what Gunner, maybe the police should have thought a little more that they may be unable to tell their side of the story if they send a SWAT team to roust a guy out of bed who didn't commit any crimes. You don't get it both ways. I bet law enforcement would have had a much easier time had they sent a couple officers over for an interview or even made a simple telephone call. Or even both. Everyone probably could have told their stories then.

Absolutely! Amen!

Sounds OK, but according what's in the news, ODOT sounded an alarm and the police were therefore operating from a certain belief. You don't just send a couple of officers to "chat" with someone who you believe might possibly be armed and dangerous and unstable and mad at the world. A phone call doesn't really give you an opportunity to assess someone.

Based on the information they had, I believe the police wanted a professional mental health exam and opinion, not just a chat.

The information the police had would still be confidential because it was a personnel matter and mental health matter, no matter how they handled it.

Let's at least get it that ODOT sounded an alarm and police agencies decided they'd best get this guy in for a (legal) mental health exam. They went to his home for that legal purpose, with or without his consent. I believe that they didn't plan to just chat with him. I believe that they planned to take him in.

One more time. If we don't like the clear fact that Oregon law allows that, then it's something to take up with the legislature. If Mr. Pyles' rights were violated, he has recourse to the courts.

I repeat. So far we have only the statement in the press that ODOT sounded an alarm, and Mr. Pyles' partial and abbreviated (he didn't discuss what actually happened at work afaik) side of the story.

We can't solve it here.

 

[TAT2D]

I will say this. If Mr. Pyles doesn't file suit, then we might guess that he doesn't have much of a case.

I don't think that necessarily follows. Some people just recognize that sometimes stuff happens and they get over it and move on.

MrB

 

[Gunner3456]

I don't think that necessarily follows. Some people just recognize that sometimes stuff happens and they get over it and move on.

MrB

True.

In this case, if all of the assumptions and allegations on here are true, then Mr. Pyles was essentially kidnapped against his will, and illegally held against his will.

His home was illegally searched and his property (guns) stolen. He was humiliated in front of his neighbors and his co-workers.

He's angry if the press releases are accurate. He has the backing of a couple of gun rights organizations.

His case might be worth millions.

I say he'd sue if all that is true. But, maybe not.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

This whole thing kind of re-enforces the idea, that the farther you live out in the middle of nowhere, the less taxes you pay, the less govt you have to deal with, the less peeps that might point a finger at you, ect ect....

Less "middle of nowhere" every day..

 

[zeezee]

You know what Gunner, maybe the police should have thought a little more that they may be unable to tell their side of the story if they send a SWAT team to roust a guy out of bed who didn't commit any crimes. You don't get it both ways. I bet law enforcement would have had a much easier time had they sent a couple officers over for an interview or even made a simple telephone call. Or even both. Everyone probably could have told their stories then.

Dammit! We do not have thought police or maybe or could be or possibly police. If no crime is commited, stay the _ _ _ _ out of our lives! Being pissed off over being fired is not intent to commit a crime, nor is the purchasing of any firearm. Understand this, we are a nation of laws, if no law is broken than ANY policing agency has no business intefering with any United States Citizens life. Especially of undocumented intent! You talk of phone calls or of visiting him and I say BULL CRAP! What story is to be told? "I got fired", "I bought some guns" so WHAT?
And if a cop comes to your door wanting to ask questions, tell them polietly, respectively that you will answer all there questions AFTER you speak to an attorney.

 

[Gunner3456]

Dammit! We do not have thought police or maybe or could be or possibly police. If no crime is commited, stay the _ _ _ _ out of our lives! Being pissed off over being fired is not intent to commit a crime, nor is the purchasing of any firearm. Understand this, we are a nation of laws, if no law is broken than ANY policing agency has no business intefering with any United States Citizens life. Especially of undocumented intent! You talk of phone calls or of visiting him and I say BULL CRAP! What story is to be told? "I got fired", "I bought some guns" so WHAT?
And if a cop comes to your door wanting to ask questions, tell them polietly, respectively that you will answer all there questions AFTER you speak to an attorney.

Well, I respect your feelings but that's what they are - your feelings.

The points you are making have to do with criminal law. This was a civil matter. The man was never charged with a crime and criminal laws don't apply.

Under Oregon law the police have not only the right but a responsibility to take action when mental issues are suspected. They don't have to be violent mental issues. It's called protective custody in most cases.

Since the police went to his home with information, and it appears the intent to take him into custody, his rights to not come outside or ignore the police didn't hold. He could remain silent, but it appears that they were still taking him. They would have taken him by force under the law.

As I said, if we don't like that law, then it's a matter for the legislature, not the police. It's actually the police's responsibility to take someone in for a mental health exam especially if they have reason to believe the person might be a danger to himself or others.

I'm unsure what's so hard to understand here...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Dammit! We do not have thought police or maybe or could be or possibly police. If no crime is commited, stay the _ _ _ _ out of our lives! Being pissed off over being fired is not intent to commit a crime, nor is the purchasing of any firearm. Understand this, we are a nation of laws, if no law is broken than ANY policing agency has no business intefering with any United States Citizens life. Especially of undocumented intent! You talk of phone calls or of visiting him and I say BULL CRAP! What story is to be told? "I got fired", "I bought some guns" so WHAT?
And if a cop comes to your door wanting to ask questions, tell them polietly, respectively that you will answer all there questions AFTER you speak to an attorney.

To boot he wasn't even fired, he was on some sort of paid administrative leave and working at home