National Pistol Brace Litigation Post 01/31

[bradsteen]

 

[Bam]

So… has anyone actually had a LEO stop them to verify they had the proper stamp for their SBR? Or for a suppressor?

 

[wired]

So… has anyone actually had a LEO stop them to verify they had the proper stamp for their SBR? Or for a suppressor?

I have. Several times

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I have. Several times

Yeah, but to be fair I have met you and you do look very suspicious

 

[wired]

Yeah, but to be fair I have met you and you do look very suspicious

And I have a pile of silencers and SBRs laying on the table. Last time was a few months ago.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

So… has anyone actually had a LEO stop them to verify they had the proper stamp for their SBR? Or for a suppressor?

No. I think they think the guy with a suppressed machine gun, who waves all friendly and shows no fear is legit. So yes, I have seen LEOs check other people's stuff but ignore me. To quote Chesterton, from the man who was Thursday, a nightmare:

"Originally, of course, we met in a cell underground, just as your branch does. Then Sunday made us take a private room at an ordinary restaurant. He said that if you didn't seem to be hiding nobody hunted you out."

 

[wired]

So… has anyone actually had a LEO stop them to verify they had the proper stamp for their SBR? Or for a suppressor?

At the risk of being droll telling the same story over ...and over again, I have known 7 guys who went to jail on federal weapons charges . Most of them within a 3 year period in Washington state. Most were acquaintances but a few were good or even best friends. Also the best man at my wedding now runs a burger joint in Thailand because he can't come back without going to prison on, you guessed it, federal weapons charges. Take this stuff seriously. I do stuff legally but not everyone Ive ever known has. They always thought I was a dumb@ss for paying for tax stamps.

 

[The Heretic]

At the risk of being droll telling the same story over ...and over again, I have known 7 guys who went to jail on federal weapons charges . Most of them within a 3 year period in Washington state. Most were acquaintances but a few were good or even best friends. Also the best man at my wedding now runs a burger joint in Thailand because he can't come back without going to prison on, you guessed it, federal weapons charges. Take this stuff seriously. I do stuff legally but not everyone Ive ever known has. They always thought I was a dumb@ss for paying for tax stamps.

This is the way.

I keep seeing people on Reddit and even here, talk about others being pussies for "complying", but if you think about it, almost everybody will "comply", in some fashion, unless they stand outside ATF headquarters shouting "I have an unregistered NFA weapon here and I am never going to register it!".

 

[wired]

This is the way.

I keep seeing people on Reddit and even here, talk about others being pussies for "complying", but if you think about it, almost everybody will "comply", in some fashion, unless they stand outside ATF headquarters shouting "I have an unregistered NFA weapon here and I am never going to register it!".

This is what complying gets you

 

[ilikegunspdx]

At the risk of being droll telling the same story over ...and over again, I have known 7 guys who went to jail on federal weapons charges . Most of them within a 3 year period in Washington state. Most were acquaintances but a few were good or even best friends. Also the best man at my wedding now runs a burger joint in Thailand because he can't come back without going to prison on, you guessed it, federal weapons charges. Take this stuff seriously. I do stuff legally but not everyone Ive ever known has. They always thought I was a dumb@ss for paying for tax stamps.

Maybe it's a WA state thing. Just talked to a guy last week whose friend lives in a small town up north. Apparently he bought a solvent trap online and atf paid him a visit but he wasn't home and was in a town about 5 hours away. ATF drove to the other town to find him. Sheesh. I didn't press for details about what they did when they found him (I think if it was something major he would have said, but who knows) but they went to great trouble to track him down.

 

[wired]

Maybe it's a WA state thing. Just talked to a guy last week whose friend lives in a small town up north. Apparently he bought a solvent trap online and atf paid him a visit but he wasn't home and was in a town about 5 hours away. ATF drove to the other town to find him. Sheesh. I didn't press for details about what they did when they found him (I think if it was something major he would have said, but who knows) but they went to great trouble to track him down.

It was pretty bad in the late 90's when they just finished up the Ruby Ridge operation and they had a bunch of bored ATF agents in state busting militia bubbas for their muffler hut machine guns. If anyone offers to buy your illegal machine gun ...its an ATF agent. If anyone wants to sell you an illegal machine gun...its an ATF agent. If you start a militia and have 20 guys in your group...12 of them are FBI agents. Hooking up with a 16 year old girl online? Its a cop. None of this stuff is difficult to figure out but people do stupid stuff over and over again thinking they wont get caught. People will rat you out to save their own skin 10 times out of 10.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

This is the way.

I keep seeing people on Reddit and even here, talk about others being pussies for "complying", but if you think about it, almost everybody will "comply", in some fashion, unless they stand outside ATF headquarters shouting "I have an unregistered NFA weapon here and I am never going to register it!".

I believe that the Shall Not Comply argument is about items where were deemed legal by the ATF through one or more letters, but now because of political winds are all of a sudden illegal requiring some compliance action on the part of the original purchaser.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I believe that the Shall Not Comply argument is about items where were deemed legal by the ATF through one or more letters, but now because of political winds are all of a sudden illegal requiring some compliance action on the part of the original purchaser.

Yep ATf changing their stance over and over is BS that's for sure and currently 26 states are suing them over it. That said, let's say a person wanted to put a stock and vertical foregrip on a pistol but settled for a brace. The new brace rule allows them to add the foregrip and stock without the $200. But it's a hassle and I totally get the registration leads to confiscation thing. I really do. As with everything their are pluses and minuses.

I think sometimes people assume "comply" out of fear. But sometimes it's "comply" not due to fear but because it makes sense for what they want to do with that gun and they are ok with the risk (of potential confiscation someday) for the benefit of added features. I believe the brace rule will be overturned personally. How long that will take though I don't know.

 

[wired]

I look at the nearly 90 years of the NFA and dont see a history of registration and confiscation.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I look at the nearly 90 years of the NFA and dont see a history of registration and confiscation.

@sobo Want to put up your citations...?

 

[sobo]

@sobo Want to put up your citations...?

I would, but I just made a promise to get my fatass onto my treadmill before it gets too late to actually do it. Anyone who wants a quick recap, though, can leaf through John Ross' Unintended Consequences. It's replete with citations of the AFT's criminal misdoings, including confiscations, over the decades.

 

[wired]

I would, but I just made a promise to get my fatass onto my treadmill before it gets too late to actually do it. Anyone who wants a quick recap, though, can leaf through John Ross' Unintended Consequences. It's replete with citations of the AFT's criminal misdoings, including confiscations, over the decades.

Are we using unintended consequences for cites now? I haven't seen any evidence since Ive been in the game for 32 years of legal form 1's or 4's being repo'd for reasons other than the owner becoming a prohibited person or state laws changing to prohibit their ownership.

 

[Yarome]

This is the way.

I keep seeing people on Reddit and even here, talk about others being pussies for "complying", but if you think about it, almost everybody will "comply", in some fashion, unless they stand outside ATF headquarters shouting "I have an unregistered NFA weapon here and I am never going to register it!".

I dunno. There is a lot of wiggle room between compliance and standing outside the alphabets office daring them to take it.

Much like some firearm owners that, barring metal detection or a pat down, consider "no gun zones" as mere suggestions... there will be a good many that will choose not to comply in any fashion under the ideal that.... as long as you aren't being stoopid with it... there is no reason anyone will ever scrutinize what you own. When there is a better chance than not that your item may be, once again, "legal"... the incentive to comply is greatly reduced.

As far as a cluster of 7 individuals in a buddy circle getting nailed on federal firearms charges... I would dare say their hive mind was being overtly stoopid about it and there is much more to their story than simple private ownership they happened to take out plinking paper in the backwoods somewhere's one day.

 

[sobo]

Are we using unintended consequences for cites now? I haven't seen any evidence since Ive been in the game for 32 years of legal form 1's or 4's being repo'd for reasons other than the owner becoming a prohibited person or state laws changing to prohibit their ownership.

UC is not a work of entire fiction. It's a historical fiction novel. Fiction, but with many of the plot points based upon fact. I assumed you knew that...

 

[wired]

I dunno. There is a lot of wiggle room between compliance and standing outside the alphabets office daring them to take it.

Much like some firearm owners that, barring metal detection or a pat down, consider "no gun zones" as mere suggestions... there will be a good many that will choose not to comply in any fashion under the ideal that.... as long as you aren't being stoopid with it... there is no reason anyone will ever scrutinize what you own. When there is a better chance than not that your item may be, once again, "legal"... the incentive to comply is greatly reduced.

As far as a cluster of 7 individuals in a buddy circle getting nailed on federal firearms charges... I would dare say their hive mind was being overtly stoopid about it and there is much more to their story than simple private ownership they happened to take out plinking paper in the backwoods somewhere's one day.

3 guys who knew each other got nailed at the same time . Might have been a 4th too. Didn't know him. The rest were independent. Not one of them committed any actual crimes other than firearms charges . One ratted out by pissed girlfriend . Two caught on a traffic stop and one was selling to undercover CI. The 3 were let's just say not too bright. Spent a lot of time talking to the ATF about them. Traces. Good times.