Paul Harrell

[biggie24420]

I subscribed to Paul's YT channel probably a month ago. Seems like a chill dude with a good taste in cars. It's a plus that he is a 92fs fan. I just joined his patreon page as well..... his content is totally worth a $1 a month

I haven't been to the expo gun show in a few years. My gf has never gone to a gun show so if Paul was gonna be there, I'd request time off to meet him and take the gf and take her gun show virginity away

Since Paul is a friend of yours, you should get him to join NWFA.... that would be cool. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Check out the Paul Harrell arm pump when Mac says the 9mm is just as powerful (as the .357 magnum).. especially at the 30 minute mark. heads explodin'!

 

[Rudedog]

Check out the Paul Harrell arm pump when Mac says the 9mm is just as powerful (as the .357 magnum).. especially at the 30 minute mark. heads explodin'!

I watched this MAC video a few days ago. It was very big news. I have been using a 9mm as a carry gun and a 38 spl snub as a back up. I am pondering on replacing the 38 with a 9mm snub.

 

[titsonritz]

Check out the Paul Harrell arm pump when Mac says the 9mm is just as powerful (as the .357 magnum).. especially at the 30 minute mark. heads explodin'!

I watched this MAC video a few days ago. It was very big news. I have been using a 9mm as a carry gun and a 38 spl snub as a back up. I am pondering on replacing the 38 with a 9mm snub.

The problem with 9mm is it lacks the crimp of .38/.357 and little snubbies are not know for being light on recoil that combination can make for a bullet puller with some loads, so just beware.

 

[Tarawa86]

The problem with 9mm is it lacks the crimp of .38/.357 and little snubbies are not know for being light on recoil that combination can make for a bullet puller with some loads, so just beware.

I'm going to let my ignorance show here... could you elaborate? I carry my .38 snubbie a lot because it conceals well, the thought of a 9mm snubbie is intriguing.

 

[titsonritz]

I'm going to let my ignorance show here... could you elaborate? I carry my .38 snubbie a lot because it conceals well, the thought of a 9mm snubbie is intriguing.

I'm not sure how up you are on terminology so I'll try to keep it basic. As I said the 9mm cartridge does not possess the same crimp as the .38/.357, crimp is the top of the brass rolled into a groove on the projectile. A solid crimp is typically not found on auto rounds such as 9mm, 40 S&W, 45acp, etc and it is not needed because the action of the gun soaks the majority of those force, since revolver does not have such an action the forces are translated into recoil. Small revolvers such as the S&W J-frame, Ruger LCR, etc. are usually light very weight which translates to a lot of recoil. It essentially acts like a kinetic bullet puller and can lock up the cylinder, at that point there is no "tap, rack, bang", that gun is out of the fight.

I had a S&W 342 that do just what I am describing above with 110gr CorBon ammo without fail, there a couple others I don't recall. I hope that answers your question.

 

[Tarawa86]

I'm not sure how up you are on terminology so I'll try to keep it basic. As I said the 9mm cartridge does not possess the same crimp as the .38/.357, crimp is the top of the brass rolled into a groove on the projectile. A solid crimp is typically not found on auto rounds such as 9mm, 40 S&W, 45acp, etc and it is not needed because the action of the gun soaks the majority of those force, since revolver does not have such an action the forces are translated into recoil. Small revolvers such as the S&W J-frame, Ruger LCR, etc. are usually light very weight which translates to a lot of recoil. It essentially acts like a kinetic bullet puller and can lock up the cylinder, at that point there is no "tap, rack, band", that gun is out of the fight.

I had a S&W 342 that do just what I am describing above with 110gr CorBon ammo without fail, there a couple others I don't recall. I hope that answers your question.

Thanks for the great response, much appreciated!

 

[Argonaut]

I belive this is comparing apples and oranges, there are so many different loadings for both calibers that you can find any result you want. +P 38's can approach 357 Mag performance and I shot surplus 9mm that was loaded for sub machine guns while living in Germany that were so hot they would burn the target with powder at 10 yards. There is nothing inherently more powerful between the two with the exception of heavier bullets being available for the 38 Special because it is mostly shot in revolvers.

 

[titsonritz]

Another issue is the lack of a rim, which must be overcome via moon clips or specially designed chamber/extractor design, both of which can introduce other issues. It is just not an ideal marriage IMO

 

[titsonritz]

I belive this is comparing apples and oranges, there are so many different loadings for both calibers that you can find any result you want. +P 38's can approach 357 Mag performance and I shot surplus 9mm that was loaded for sub machine guns while living in Germany that were so hot they would burn the target with powder at 10 yards. There is nothing inherently more powerful between the two with the exception of heavier bullets being available for the 38 Special because it is mostly shot in revolvers.

As they say, there is no magic bullet.

 

[Certaindeaf]

One odd thing I noticed on watching that Mac video is he seems to think that putting a cartridge that makes more power (in this case the 9mm) into a lighter gun, that it will kick the same as in a heavier gun. He says this about five times in different ways.
last I checked it don't work that way

 

[Certaindeaf]

Another issue is the lack of a rim, which must be overcome via moon clips or specially designed chamber/extractor design, both of which can introduce other issues. It is just not an ideal marriage IMO

yeabut Mac don't carry no reload for his snubby so not an issue for him

 

[Ura-Ki]

Sounds to me like folks looking to solve a problem that dosnt exist. Why run 9mm in a .38 for one, run better .38! For a back up, there are plenty of small 9mm pistols out there that can fill that roll, or a back up .38 snubby, so what's the problem?
I recently added a Para Warthawg 9mm as a back up, it's so slick I could use it as my main rig in place of a full size. Point being, it replaced both a .38 snubby and earlier a .380 PPK as a back up! Yes, in many instances a 9mm will have superior power over the .38, but there is no problem of power between the two calibers, and the idea of improving a wheel guns power with 9mm is frankly stupid, get a snubby in .357 mag if you really want more power!

 

[Certaindeaf]

All good and valid points.. I love all my guns.
I find it interesting that the 9mm +P made what, 50fpe more than the like-grained .357.. makes you wonder what the +P+'s would do out of like shortish barrels.

 

[Rudedog]

I'm going to let my ignorance show here... could you elaborate? I carry my .38 snubbie a lot because it conceals well, the thought of a 9mm snubbie is intriguing.

I reload as a hobby. The 9mm uses a "taper crimp" since the case mouth must rest, ever so slightly on forward edge of the chamber. It is a rebated rim.A.k.a. ,rimless.The .38 special being a rimmed cartridge rests on the out side of the cylinder. This is why a moon clip is generally necessary on the semi - auto cartridge. I would assume that the Ruger LCR being a modern design would allow single loading without a moon clip. The Yankee Marshall has a video where he compares various 9mm
loadings to see which may jump the crimp. A good place to start.
As a reloader I can apply a firm crimp to 38 's ect or a light one that is less likely to produce cracked case mouths.

 

[nammac]

Sounds to me like folks looking to solve a problem that dosnt exist. Why run 9mm in a .38 for one, run better .38! For a back up, there are plenty of small 9mm pistols out there that can fill that roll, or a back up .38 snubby, so what's the problem?
I recently added a Para Warthawg 9mm as a back up, it's so slick I could use it as my main rig in place of a full size. Point being, it replaced both a .38 snubby and earlier a .380 PPK as a back up! Yes, in many instances a 9mm will have superior power over the .38, but there is no problem of power between the two calibers, and the idea of improving a wheel guns power with 9mm is frankly stupid, get a snubby in .357 mag if you really want more power!

Yea, a snubby like this... A 2" .357 packing 7 rounds of Magnum pleasure...



Just sayin....

 

[MrRob96]

Sounds to me like folks looking to solve a problem that dosnt exist. Why run 9mm in a .38 for one, run better .38! For a back up, there are plenty of small 9mm pistols out there that can fill that roll, or a back up .38 snubby, so what's the problem?
I recently added a Para Warthawg 9mm as a back up, it's so slick I could use it as my main rig in place of a full size. Point being, it replaced both a .38 snubby and earlier a .380 PPK as a back up! Yes, in many instances a 9mm will have superior power over the .38, but there is no problem of power between the two calibers, and the idea of improving a wheel guns power with 9mm is frankly stupid, get a snubby in .357 mag if you really want more power!

Running better 38 isn't an option. The problem is one of pressure and burn rate.

One may be able to replicate the performance Mac showed with some hand rolled 38 choosing a faster powder, but that's not available commercially.

Basically Mac's video comes down to common powder selection for the 9mm is better when limiting barrel length to 2" and shorter barrels than 357 Magnum. This video has more panties in a bunch than when @PlayboyPenguin said 45 ACP isn't a good carry round.

Amusing thing is Yankee is also butt-hurt about the 9mm vs 357 Magnum comparison in short barrels but here is the funny part: what Mac demonstrated is true as far as velocity and energy. Yankee's analysis of 45 ACP was fraught with problems. Mac did an experiment and showed data in his video.

Compare the numbers in the row for 2".

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results

Any discussion about guns beyond 2" barrel length are outside the scope of the video and have no relevance to the findings in the video.

Also I think Mac doesn't get that 9mm in a super light revolver is also going to hurt his hand. 9mm won't be much less punishing than 357 Magnum in that way.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Compare the numbers in the row for 2".

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results

Any discussion about guns beyond 2" barrel length are outside the scope of the video and have no relevance to the findings in the video..

And that's with standard pressure, "non-magnum" (lol) +P/+P+ 9mm.

 

[Rudedog]

A snubby in 9mm instead of my .38 spl would use the same ammo as my main carry handgun and provide more energy on target than the .38 spl.

 

[Flopsweat]

A snubby in 9mm instead of my .38 spl would use the same ammo as my main carry handgun and provide more energy on target than the .38 spl.

More than a .357 too, apparently. I never would have guessed that. I think I just assumed from the sound and recoil that the .357 was a lot stronger. Bark vs. Bite... And 9mm is cheaper than either.