Help… what is going on? Not full battery…AR10

[Koda]

I would think that if thats how the handload is turning out a case guage isnt going to help....

 

[msgriff]

Even though you said that you visually inspected the chamber, look for a carbon ring at the throat. Sometimes it looks like a shadow or reflection.

 

[deadeye]

I would think that if thats how the handload is turning out a case guage isnt going to help....

It will tell him if they are in spec after sizing and after seating to determine what he needs to adjust rather than waiting to find out at the range. It will also save from pulling down a bunch of mistakes.

 

[NobullSKS]

at first I read it as if the crused case was from chambering, but now Im not certain if he attempted to feed them that way. Ive heard too much crimp can crush the neck areas.

Yes the crushed case is from trying to chamber. Left is before trying to load into chamber…. Right is after a successful chamber and fire.

 

[NobullSKS]

Thank you all for your suggestions and expertise.
— only tried firing 23 out of 130… 10 without issue..
— all fired…(auto fed, or assisted) ejected nice.
— the crimp is in seating die ***
—Have RE loaded these case’s several times. With same bullets and primers.
—crimp without cannelure
—RSBS, FL Die set
— factory Aguila ran like a race gun(same trip shooting)
— I’ll have to look closer for carbon ring
*** double checking everything I’m over the.454 measurement by 5 thou. **** that looks bad. Again the crimp is In seating die.

I haven’t had time at the bench yet… measuring the.454 area this morning because I didn’t think of it.
I probably wouldn’t be lucky enough to fix these in the press….??
Will continue damage control soon as I get time.
Thank you all again….. even though I’m looking more and more like a silly goose. I still am an amateur.

 

[Yarome]

Some things that will mess you up…
1. unannealed brass resizing won’t get shoulders down to spec and bolt won’t close… you need a shoulder comparator to know, and measure against a factory load that ships.
2. neck not trimmed… will jam base of neck into shoulders and do what we are seeing in your pics. The shoulder expansion then jams the chamber walls and u have to mortar.
3. crimping before bullet fully seated… that’s an amateur move and causes the rumpled foreskin.
4. case necks too thick for projectile… common in 300blk, not so much in 308. Mortaring required.

I’m voting #1 or 2.

The only thing I can think of to add is:
5. Your rifle is simply not identifying as a .308... for the moment. Smile, nod your head, then give it another try in a week or two to see if it has come back around again yet.

 

[ron]

Your cases look like the sizer die is screwed in too far crushing the case shoulder.
Besides case OAL measurement. The case shoulder needs to be pushed back to spec.
Common problem encountered with match chambers for 223/308 rifles. I use the RCBS
Precession Mic. Measurement on a sized case should match what factory ammo measures.
Some guys using a bolt gun push the shoulder to just under the fired case measurement.
To push back the shoulder a minimum amount. I size to what a factory round measures
if I am shooting in a Semi Auto. Hornady makes a similar tool called a bullet comparator.
I have no experience with the Hornady. The directions with your sizer die are an educated guess
but it is far from precise because of press and shell holder variables.

 

[NobullSKS]

The only thing I can think of to add is:
5. Your rifle is simply not identifying as a .308... for the moment. Smile, nod your head, then give it another try in a week or two to see if it has come back around again yet.

Yeah current social climate says I have to respect its decision. Think the alphabet soup is creating rules to protect its choices.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

—crimp without cannelure

No cannelure = No crimp

Crimping with no cannelure damages the bullet and reduces the elastic tension the neck holds on the bullet with.

 

[Snip]

Thank you all for your suggestions and expertise.
— only tried firing 23 out of 130… 10 without issue..
— all fired…(auto fed, or assisted) ejected nice.
— the crimp is in seating die ***
—Have RE loaded these case’s several times. With same bullets and primers.
—crimp without cannelure
—RSBS, FL Die set
— factory Aguila ran like a race gun(same trip shooting)
— I’ll have to look closer for carbon ring
*** double checking everything I’m over the.454 measurement by 5 thou. **** that looks bad. Again the crimp is In seating die.

I haven’t had time at the bench yet… measuring the.454 area this morning because I didn’t think of it.
I probably wouldn’t be lucky enough to fix these in the press….??
Will continue damage control soon as I get time.
Thank you all again….. even though I’m looking more and more like a silly goose. I still am an amateur.

View attachment 1352314

Seating and crimping in one die is problematic for many. If you can break those two into separate steps, I think you'd be miles ahead.

 

[2gr8dgs]

Your cases look like the sizer die is screwed in too far crushing the case shoulder.

I did not know this was possible. For a proper full length resize, doesn't the die body simply bottom out on the shell holder? O.P., you say the crimp is built into the die. Yes, it is, but it can be dialed out of the seating process. As Pepe stated, no cannular=no crimp

 

[ron]

I did not know this was possible. For a proper full length resize, doesn't the die body simply bottom out on the shell holder? O.P., you say the crimp is built into the die. Yes, it is, but it can be dialed out of the seating process. As Pepe stated, no cannular=no crimp

Yes you can oversize the 308 brass. I have done it. And the cases get a weird belling
at the bottom of the shoulder looks like your cases. Sometimes it is necessary adjusted in
past the point where it touches the shell holder to bump the shoulder back. It is referred to as
'camming over'. Without some means to measure your sizer die adjustment it is guess work.
You should be able to chamber and remove the sized case in your rifle without undue force.
308 Savage 5 shots at 100 yards. 168 SMK and IMR 4064 NO CRIMP

 

[2gr8dgs]

Yes you can oversize the 308 brass. I have done it. And the cases get a weird belling
at the bottom of the shoulder looks like your cases. Sometimes it is necessary adjusted in
past the point where it touches the shell holder to bump the shoulder back. It is referred to as
'camming over'.

If your press is "camming over" before your sizer die bottoms out, you are UNDER sizing, Not OVER sizing.

 

[Mikej]

Seating and crimping in one die is problematic for many. If you can break those two into separate steps, I think you'd be miles ahead.

I'll ad to the above.

The thing is, if you're going to use the crimp feature of a seating die the case length need to be real close on every case. I'd say .002" +/- max. If your brass is say .005" +/- the crimps will vary from too little to maybe crushing the brass. The Lee Factory ROLL* crimp die will solve that problem of the brass length variance.

I will get by with the seating die for crimping on .38sp/.357 because I don't care if everything is that EXACT on those rounds. Rifle is different to me. Rifle brass being longer/more delicate is probably more susceptible to crushing.
* Be sure when you order the Lee factory crimp die that you get the ROLL crimp die. Not the taper crimp die.

 

[homeuser6]

lots of bad advice in this thread. DITCH THE CRIMP. if neck tension is inadequate,use a smaller expander ball.

 

[Mikej]

lots of bad advice in this thread. DITCH THE CRIMP. if neck tension is inadequate,use a smaller expander ball.

Why wouldn't you point out the bad advice in this thread? In a non-demeaning manner of course.

 

[crstrode]

Even with the poor photography, no micrometer or case gauge is needed to easily see that these are very poor reloads. How do I know? Because I've been there and done that. Failing to check empty case length and/or a bit too much crimp, left me with a whole bunch of rounds that caused much grief and embarrassment.

Compressed shoulders and slight bump at the transition between the shoulder and body, is a dead give-away. Inconsistent chamber rubbing is also clearly evident.

Trim and de-burr the cases. If you must crimp, do so very lightly. Check your work by close comparison to good quality factory cartridges known to function flawlessly. If reloads don't "plunk" into the chamber, or at least the case gauge, re-visit your adjustments.

 

[AMT]

I did this exact same thing on my first 308 reloading excursion...

I tried to seat the bullet and set the crimp all at once - like various pistol caliber rounds that I reloaded previously.

I broke it in to 2 steps. Yes, it adds an extra step but you are not pushing a bullet to depth while trying so set the crimp at the same time. This causes unwanted force on the shoulder and pushes it down causing the bulge.

- I fixed my mistake by pulling apart ALL of my loads.
- Run the cases back through the sizer die (ensure you remove your decapper, or run it all the way up into the die) so you don't push your primer out.
- Pour powder as you normally would.
- Seat all of your bullets to depth.
- Back out the seater - and - back out the die a little bit.
- Set up the shell for a very slight crimp.
- If all goes well you shouldn't mushroom the shoulder.

If all else fails purchase a Lee crimp die to do the crimping.... like i did.

 

[DizzyJ]

Personally I don’t crimp any of my rifle cartridges. Semiauto or not.

 

[Snip]

Why wouldn't you point out the bad advice in this thread? In a non-demeaning manner of course.

Seagull management.