Oregon Just became the first state to officially add a third gender!

[Ruger Rich]

You are what you are. May not be the same as me. Or my wife. Go for it.

 

[MasterChief]

I think my AR wanted to be the gender "x".....non existent .... She's only 80% though

 

[Mark W.]

Not Now. I think I am going to buy a dress and be a different gender every day. It's OK in Oregon.

You just proved my point when you said "I THINK"

 

[edslhead]

I kinda like being able to use the women's bathroom whenever I see fit

 

[etrain16]

I kinda like being able to use the women's bathroom whenever I see fit

And that is a bonafide problem right there. Any person can walk into any restroom, locker room, etc. and claim they fit in. What about the right to personal privacy of those that DO identify as their gender? Their rights are being ignored for a tiny minority that wants to force and agenda on others.

I don't have a problem with folks that identify differently, but I do have a problem with just anyone being able to go just anywhere, especially when it's a place where privacy and decency should be protected.

I'm going to have a hard time being convinced of any of this until the science can be officially settled. For now, simple genetic testing will show you are either XX (female) or XY (male). Cut off parts, add new parts on, either way, your genetics are cast in stone. Until that's proven wrong, I'll see this existence of other genders as unsettled in terms of science.

 

[CamoDeafie]

For now, simple genetic testing will show you are either XX (female) or XY (male). Cut off parts, add new parts on, either way, your genetics are cast in stone. Until that's proven wrong, I'll see this existence of other genders as unsettled in terms of science.

There have been several cases of where simple genetics do not line up with the appearance of people recently. Most common is the presentation of being a female until puberty and dropping testes and having XY chromosomes.
Not as common is the presence of both testes and uteruses but these usually are infertile people, and usually present as female at birth anyhow. Incredibly rare for a person to present as male at birth but to have XX chromosomes; although it has happened.
So.. science still has not definitely settled, in the meantime I personally believe in having individual stalls for everyone..... as for locker rooms..... I'm not too confident that just making them coed will be okay with the majority of parents anywhere. It would take a very long time, perhaps centuries or millennia before religious groups can get past the whole "separation by sexes for moral and safety reasons" barrier to a truly equal society where it doesnt matter what your genes or appearance is to society

Edit; science says BOTH male and female children have undeveloped mammary glands. When puberty hits, the female ones will develop but sometimes the male ones will also develop if there are hormonal imbalances or "wrong chromosomes".

So really whats up top doesnt always indicate male/female/whatever .. its whats down there usually and even then, some children have underdeveloped bits and pieces that doesnt present as anything until puberty (and some have a 2nd puberty sooo)

Its as much a product of hormonal glands as it is genetics.

 

[etrain16]

There have been several cases of where simple genetics do not line up with the appearance of people recently. Most common is the presentation of being a female until puberty and dropping testes and having XY chromosomes.
Not as common is the presence of both testes and uteruses but these usually are infertile people, and usually present as female at birth anyhow. Incredibly rare for a person to present as male at birth but to have XX chromosomes; although it has happened.
So.. science still has not definitely settled, in the meantime I personally believe in having individual stalls for everyone..... as for locker rooms..... I'm not too confident that just making them coed will be okay with the majority of parents anywhere. It would take a very long time, perhaps centuries or millennia before religious groups can get past the whole "separation by sexes for moral and safety reasons" barrier to a truly equal society where it doesnt matter what your genes or appearance is to society

Edit; science says BOTH male and female children have undeveloped mammary glands. When puberty hits, the female ones will develop but sometimes the male ones will also develop if there are hormonal imbalances or "wrong chromosomes".

So really whats up top doesnt always indicate male/female/whatever .. its whats down there usually and even then, some children have underdeveloped bits and pieces that doesnt present as anything until puberty (and some have a 2nd puberty sooo)

Its as much a product of hormonal glands as it is genetics.

I think what it comes down to is that shared restrooms and locker rooms are going to have to go away. Science aside, society/politicians and very loud, yelling people are trying to bypass all that and allow any person to simply claim what they are, something they are now stating can be fluid - up to changing on a regular basis.

If we are to respect everyone's rights, then we have to not only respect those who may question their previously assigned gender as well as the rest of society who don't question it, and the only way I see to do that is to completely eliminate all shared public restrooms, locker rooms or any other place where folks may mix with others of the same gender and expect at least that level of privacy.

Otherwise, anyone can simply claim a different gender and walk into one of those spaces, potentially violating the privacy of those in that space. And what defense do they have to offer to justify this? "I felt like it" And everyone else is expected to accept that. Unfortunately, this world is has more than it's share of bad people that will (already have) taken advantage of these new rules in order to do their perverted deeds. To be clear here - I'm talking about actuall perverts, pedophiles, etc. - I'm not suggesting people who question their gender identity are 'perverts' or 'pedophiles' - just in case anyone was wondering if I was lumping the two together.

Whatever happens, the rights of ALL people should be preserved, not just forcing others to accept something that science can't even settle at this time. I think that's about as balanced an approach as we can get.

 

[Flymph]

And that is a bonafide problem right there. Any person can walk into any restroom, locker room, etc. and claim they fit in. What about the right to personal privacy of those that DO identify as their gender? Their rights are being ignored for a tiny minority that wants to force and agenda on others.

I don't have a problem with folks that identify differently, but I do have a problem with just anyone being able to go just anywhere, especially when it's a place where privacy and decency should be protected.

I'm going to have a hard time being convinced of any of this until the science can be officially settled. For now, simple genetic testing will show you are either XX (female) or XY (male). Cut off parts, add new parts on, either way, your genetics are cast in stone. Until that's proven wrong, I'll see this existence of other genders as unsettled in terms of science.

Well, generally the problem in privacy occurs when people start looking at other peoples' privates. If some pervert just wants to peep, they will be dealt with as a pervert. Nothing but rules stops perverts from doing what they want anyway. Really, a private bathroom would be a room for an individual. Unless you're really good at determining how pee sounds coming out of which anatomy, you might never know. It's also weird and invasive to pass judgment based on the sound of somebody's pee. Do what I do, ignore people in the bathroom. It's not a place for conversation anyway.

As for science, there is about a 2-3% population that is XXY and about 1% that is hermaphrodite. The XXY population seems to be growing as doctors are genetically testing for it more often now. You would never know without the testing. Sometimes it is all in their head, and they have a hormonal imbalance that produces more female hormones than masculine hormones, or vice versa. This can be independent of the XXY chromosome difference. A person should be able to choose what to do with these traits.
Gender is a social construct which only serves to determine which person fertilizes and which is to be fertilized. If you're not looking to impregnate somebody, it shouldn't really matter.

 

[Flymph]

I think what it comes down to is that shared restrooms and locker rooms are going to have to go away. Science aside, society/politicians and very loud, yelling people are trying to bypass all that and allow any person to simply claim what they are, something they are now stating can be fluid - up to changing on a regular basis.

If we are to respect everyone's rights, then we have to not only respect those who may question their previously assigned gender as well as the rest of society who don't question it, and the only way I see to do that is to completely eliminate all shared public restrooms, locker rooms or any other place where folks may mix with others of the same gender and expect at least that level of privacy.

Otherwise, anyone can simply claim a different gender and walk into one of those spaces, potentially violating the privacy of those in that space. And what defense do they have to offer to justify this? "I felt like it" And everyone else is expected to accept that. Unfortunately, this world is has more than it's share of bad people that will (already have) taken advantage of these new rules in order to do their perverted deeds. To be clear here - I'm talking about actuall perverts, pedophiles, etc. - I'm not suggesting people who question their gender identity are 'perverts' or 'pedophiles' - just in case anyone was wondering if I was lumping the two together.

Whatever happens, the rights of ALL people should be preserved, not just forcing others to accept something that science can't even settle at this time. I think that's about as balanced an approach as we can get.

That's also why the third bathroom has been pushed, so these people who identify differently can feel safe.
I feel like a little girl who identifies as a boy is more likely to get beat up than a little boy who identifies as a girl is to peep on their peers in the locker room...

 

[etrain16]

Well, generally the problem in privacy occurs when people start looking at other peoples' privates. If some pervert just wants to peep, they will be dealt with as a pervert. Nothing but rules stops perverts from doing what they want anyway. Really, a private bathroom would be a room for an individual. Unless you're really good at determining how pee sounds coming out of which anatomy, you might never know. It's also weird and invasive to pass judgment based on the sound of somebody's pee. Do what I do, ignore people in the bathroom. It's not a place for conversation anyway.

As for science, there is about a 2-3% population that is XXY and about 1% that is hermaphrodite. The XXY population seems to be growing as doctors are genetically testing for it more often now. You would never know without the testing. Sometimes it is all in their head, and they have a hormonal imbalance that produces more female hormones than masculine hormones, or vice versa. This can be independent of the XXY chromosome difference. A person should be able to choose what to do with these traits.
Gender is a social construct which only serves to determine which person fertilizes and which is to be fertilized. If you're not looking to impregnate somebody, it shouldn't really matter.

As a husband, and a father of a young daughter, I take their safety and privacy very seriously. My daughter shouldn't have to look at someone, who is on all outward appearances a man, and wonder if he's there to oggle her or worse. I realize there are a small percentage of folks that are stuck in a tough place. That's why my solution, private restrooms and changing rooms for EVERYONE solves the problem very nicely. No hurt feelings. No wondering other's intentions. No need to have to worry about who is in the room with you.

Seriously, it's such an easy solution. Eliminate the shared restrooms and changing/locker rooms and the discussion loses all steam. I don't know why folks want to fight this idea - some want to fight to force folks to let anyone, anywhere, free access to these areas. A polite society should respect the rights of all, not force everyone to accept the beliefs/assertions of others.

BTW, I don't buy the "gender is a social construct" claim. Science identifies two distinct sexes among the human/animal world. I don't see that as a social construct, but a simple fact. Anything outside of those two are typically a genetic anomoly/mutation, not an established norm.

 

[etrain16]

That's also why the third bathroom has been pushed, so these people who identify differently can feel safe.
I feel like a little girl who identifies as a boy is more likely to get beat up than a little boy who identifies as a girl is to peep on their peers in the locker room...

Yes, but the 3rd locker room idea causes people to stand out as being different. Making all restrooms/locker rooms individual would eliminate any stigma folks would have about choosing a 'third option'.

 

[Flymph]

Yeah yeah yeah, I see. Your idea is actually the better one. It's just too expensive, so nobodies goes for it, which sucks. For a minute I thought you just wanted to get rid of restrooms all together, and I thought that was weird. Lmao
One of the most annoying things is when somebody comes in and tries to chat you up while you're taking a pee. "DUDE I DON'T KNOW YOU, MY COCK IS HANGING OUT, WHY NOW!"
When you're washing your hands it's fine, but let me relax when peeing!

Sex is natural, gender is a construct. There wouldn't be gender if we all wore black tunics, just sexes.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I agree with individual private spaces. No reason one couldnt retrofit older restrooms to have individual stalls. Not sure about locker rooms/changing rooms.. may require replacement of the old industrial lockers.

I used to work with special needs adults.. they had been institutionalized when children and had no expectation of privacy... we had been encouraging them to expect privacy when doing their business; but its difficult.

Individual private spaces also will cut down on locker room style sexual harassment/bullying, especially against gay/lesbian/bi/other children.

 

[etrain16]

Yeah yeah yeah, I see. Your idea is actually the better one. It's just too expensive, so nobodies goes for it, which sucks. For a minute I thought you just wanted to get rid of restrooms all together, and I thought that was weird. Lmao
One of the most annoying things is when somebody comes in and tries to chat you up while you're taking a pee. "DUDE I DON'T KNOW YOU, MY COCK IS HANGING OUT, WHY NOW!"
When you're washing your hands it's fine, but let me relax when peeing!

Sex is natural, gender is a construct. There wouldn't be gender if we all wore black tunics, just sexes.

You're right, it's an expensive proposition, but, all things being equal, I just don't see how we can treat everyone with the equal level of respect and privacy they deserve aside from doing it this way. It will take a drastic shift in planning of buildings, etc to accommodate this - if folks are truly serious about it, it can be done. It will likely take a long time to fully implement though. I suppose you could maintain one large, co-ed restroom/locker room in the interest of space and those who don't care one way or the other. It's an easy solution, but certainly not a cheap one.

 

[Flymph]

Maybe we should call it an economic stimuli... just think of how many jobs that this would create! Sure, they will get their job done eventually, but keeps people working with a good job.

 

[11Charlie]

One of these people ever follows my future granddaughter into a rest room they won't need to look down to figure out what they are!!


Just sayin!


Edit: I didn't read anything past the OP

 

[Bushman]

Society has become retarded. We have violent, dishonest police who enforce many BS laws like magazine control, dirty politicians, and are far from first in anything resembling education.

 

[Kristina]

"We must proactively break down the barriers of institutional bias," said Gov. Kate Brown, who called the vote an important step toward creating "a society that upholds the rights, liberties and dignity of each of its people."

I hope someone throws that quote back at her when she tries to push the next B.S. gun law.

 

[Flymph]

And rightly so!