Oregon House Bills 2787 and 2792

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The NRA sent out emails to Oregon members last week asking that we voice our opinions on these two bills, and gave the email addresses to 5 Oregon Senators. I emailed every one of them, and actually got a reply from Senator Jeff Kruse. It certainly is not an encouraging reply. I just post this fyi. No replies are necessary.


WEEK SEVENTEEN

I have received a massive amount of emails this week on two issues. The first issue was Senate Bill 525 dealing with the eventual elimination of phone books. Three interesting points; first the bill is dead, second 98% of the emails were from out of state, and third it is a really stupid idea.

The other issue is actually an important one as it deals with Second Amendment rights . A few weeks ago the House passed three gun bills. House Bull 2797 defined the ability to carry a gun on an ATV or motorcycle and passed the House 58 to 0. House bill 2787 clarified what we already thought was in law prohibiting agencies from disclosing information about concealed carry permit holders and passed the House 42 to 18. House bill 2792 would have allowed permit holders from other states to legally carry in Oregon and Oregon residents to legally carry in other states (reciprocity) and passed the House 40 to 17. Three well thought out bills, fully debated and passed with large majority (bipartisan) votes.

At this point the story turns bad, as these bills now had to go before the Senate Judiciary Committee. It is well known that Floyd Prozanski (who chairs the committee) and several others in the Senate Democratic Caucus are very much anti-gun people. They may attempt to deny it, but their voting record over the years is very clear.

Several weeks ago Senator Prozanski scheduled hearings on all three bills. The House members who sponsored the bills came in and testified for about fifteen minutes on the bills and made a very good case for passing the bills without amendments. The next two hours were spent on testimony from people like State Superintendent Castillo talking about violence in schools and referring to an amendment to one of the bills. I asked the Chair if there was such an amendment and he said “no, it was just a concept”. At that point I suggested the testimony was out of order because it didn’t pertain to the subject of any of the bills, but was ignored.

I should take a break from the narrative at this juncture to point out in the history of gun violence in schools in the United States there has never been an incident involving anyone with a concealed carry permit. In the two hours of testimony we heard about the violence in Portland, not one of the incidences referenced involved a person with a legal permit and none of the cases noted took place on school grounds. When I suggested to those testifying that maybe their focus should be on criminals and not law abiding citizens my suggestion was rather rudely rejected.

Now fast forward to this week and the Wednesday hearing on House Bill 2797 (the one that passed the House unanimously). Senator Prozanski had already decided to kill the other two bills and include the confidentiality provisions of HB 2787 into HB 2797. The problem came when he also chose to put in a provision making it a C felony for someone with a legal carry permit to have a gun in their possession on school grounds. I suggested to Senator Prozanski that he should put his concept in a separate bill and not mess with the three very good bills the House sent us. His response was, in essence, he could do whatever he wanted, which was true because he had the support on the committee of Senators Bonamici and Dingfelder.

At the end of the day Senator Prozanski has found a way to kill all three gun bills, because he knows the House will not agree with his amendments. Senator Whitsett and I voted no on the amended bill and served notice of a minority report. This will allow us to bring a good gun bill to the floor of the Senate. I truly believe our bill will be one that could easily pass, but it will fail because Senate democrats never go against their leadership.

The anti-gun minority will have won again. We continue to make it harder for people who obey the law and ignore dealing with the actual criminal element responsible for the violence. Please pay attention to the vote on the minority report on HB 2797 as well as the vote on the actual bill. The bill itself with the Prozanski amendment is a Constitutional violation and should be noted.

Sincerely,
Senator Jeff Kruse
 
OP
wingspar
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Here is an email response from Senator Floyd Prozanski. Again, I post this fyi only. No comment is necessary.


I want to thank everyone who sent me their comments on the various gun bills that were assigned to the Senate Judiciary Committee. I especially want to thank the vast majority of individuals who discussed the merits of those bills with civility and respect.

Unfortunately, many of you have received inaccurate "alerts" and other correspondence, including allegations that I am against keeping Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holders’ and applicants' personal information confidential. That is not true. In fact, I support keeping such information confidential. You also have been told that I am "anti-gun." That is also inaccurate.

Let me first set the record straight about myself. I was born and grew up in Texas. I lived there for almost 30 years. I purchased my first gun when I was 15 years old and have continuously owned firearms ever since. My sister was murdered with a handgun in 1973. I believe the state has the right and duty to place reasonable restrictions on whom can possess guns and where they can be carried. I have been a prosecutor in Oregon for 24 years. As a gun owner for more than 40 years, I support both the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article I, Section 27 of the Oregon Constitution.

Now let me set the record straight about the firearms legislation pending in this year's Legislative Session. To maximize support, I amended a bill in the committee to incorporate several changes into one firearms bill. As amended, HB 2797 includes these major points. It:

- Prohibits the disclosure of personal information of CHL holders and applicants, Clarifies when and how ATV operators and motorcyclists can carry firearms,
- Prohibits certain felons from petitioning the court for restoring gun rights,
- Prohibits guns on public school campuses,
- Requires a report from the State Police on compliance with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System Improvement Amendments Act of 2007,
- Includes provisions limiting police authority to arrest or charge a CHL holder,
- Limits prosecution of CHL holders to state (not federal) law violations, and
- Repeals the law requiring an individual to allow police to examine a firearm to see if it is loaded or not.

Many of you have received information from Kevin Starrett of Oregon Firearms Federation, who has used scare tactics, misinformation and "photo shopped" pictures to berate the bill or me. He seems more interested in drumming up contributions than discussing the merits of the entire bill. In fact, it seems he only disagrees with only two points of the bill.

Kevin has previously testified that he believes all felons including murderers and rapists should be eligible to petition a court to restore their gun rights. I disagree. I have spoken to numerous OFF and NRA members who agree with me that certain felons should be prohibited from restoring their gun rights.

Kevin also believes that a CHL holder should be able to carry a firearm into any public building including schools. Again, I disagree with him. I believe certain public buildings including courthouses and schools should be off limits for guns, except for ROTC programs and gun safety classes.

Some of you may have also received an e-newsletter from Senator Jeff Kruse making inaccurate claims about the bill, the committee process, and my intentions and position on these gun bills. It is unfortunate, because misinformation does a service to no one. Even though Jeff claims that I am "anti-gun" (I am not) he in fact voted with me and the three other committee members to amend another firearms bill, HB 2792, to pass it to the Senate floor with a "do pass" recommendation.

I've heard from constituents who have two significant issues with HB 2797. Some support making CHL holders and applicants' personal information confidential, and some support prohibiting CHL holders from carrying weapons on public school grounds. Many individuals support only one of these provisions, but not both. I support both, along with the other provisions of the amended bill.

I hope this letter clarifies what is actually included in HB 2797 as well as my personal beliefs and history regarding gun rights. I understand that we may not always agree, but I am open to hearing your point of view. Again, I want to thank everyone who contacted me and was civil in expressing their views.

Very truly,
Senator Floyd Prozanski



Summary of HB 2797 as amended:

I. Carrying guns on ATVs and motorcycles
Sections 1-3: Clarifies when and how ATV operators and motorcyclists can carry firearms.

II. Concealed Handgun License (CHL) records
Section 4: Prohibits the disclosure of personal information of CHL holders and applicants.

III. Felons gun rights
Sections 5-6: Sets limits on when and who may petition the court for restoring gun rights. Prohibits felons who were convicted of a person felony while using a firearm or deadly weapon or a Measure 11 offense from seeking restoration of their gun rights. Requires eligible felons to wait three years before seeking restoration of their gun rights.

IV. Guns on public school grounds
Sections 7-8: Prohibits most firearms on public school grounds. Maintains current exemptions and adds new exemption for CHL holders.

V. Limits police authority to arrest or charge CHL holder
Section 9: Exempts CHL holders from being arrested or charged for violating ORS166.250 (1) (a) or (b) or ORS 166.370 (1)(a).

VI. Limits prosecution under ORS 166.425 to state law violations
Section 10: Limits application of ORS 166.425, Unlawful purchase of a firearm, to state law violations (deletes federal law violations from statute).

VII. Report from OSP to the Legislature regarding mental health records
Section 11: Requires state police to provide a report re: compliance with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System Improvement Amendments Act of 2007. Including the state complying with reporting mental health records of those found guilty except for insane or declared insane by a court.

VIII. Sunset Clause
Section 12: Repeals Section 11 on 1/2/12.

IX. Repeals Examination of firearm by police
Section 13: Repeals ORS 166.380, Examination of firearm by police to determine if it is loaded or unloaded and prohibits arrest for failure to allow examination.

X. Effective Dates
Section 14: Sets effective date for changes to existing laws amended by Sections 1 to 3, 7, 9 and 10.

XI. Emergency Clause
Section 15: Emergency clause – bill becomes law and is effective upon governor's signature.
 
I have google-fu'ed but cannot find the most current form of this bill anywhere. The referenced link on the OFF website links to a 4-page PDF that looks like it trails off and is incomplete, and may be out of date.

Is there someplace that we can look at the most current form with the ammendments... particularly relating to Sec. IV? The Senator's reply would seem to indicate that CHL holders are exempted from the "school property ban" with some added exemptions as well. It'd sure be nice if we could see the current version before we go firing off angry emails to the Senator and calling him a liar, if in fact what he said in his reply is true...



He seems to have contradicted himself by saying he thinks CHL guns should be restricted from shools then states:

IV. Guns on public school grounds
Sections 7-8: Prohibits most firearms on public school grounds. Maintains current exemptions and adds new exemption for CHL holders.



The devil is in the details with these "lawyers", yes?
 
OP
wingspar
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See this page <broken link removed> on the NRA site, and look under Oregon Updates. Those links have the links to the bills in them in html format. How up to date the info is, and if the links are being kept up to date isn’t mentioned.

I really intended for this thread to be informational, and not for discussion.
 
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Senator and calling him a liar, if in fact what he said in his reply is true...
When he mentioned OFF using shopped images to slander him and his amendments to the bills, I kinda chuckled. I can't remember any images at all, let alone a shopped image used. At any rate, knowing Floyd blatantly lied about that, and butchering bills behind closed doors of committee.. Says all we need to know about his "honesty".
 
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I have google-fu'ed but cannot find the most current form of this bill anywhere. The referenced link on the OFF website links to a 4-page PDF that looks like it trails off and is incomplete, and may be out of date.

Is there someplace that we can look at the most current form with the ammendments... particularly relating to Sec. IV? The Senator's reply would seem to indicate that CHL holders are exempted from the "school property ban" with some added exemptions as well. It'd sure be nice if we could see the current version before we go firing off angry emails to the Senator and calling him a liar, if in fact what he said in his reply is true...



He seems to have contradicted himself by saying he thinks CHL guns should be restricted from shools then states:

IV. Guns on public school grounds
Sections 7-8: Prohibits most firearms on public school grounds. Maintains current exemptions and adds new exemption for CHL holders.



The devil is in the details with these "lawyers", yes?
Usually the best place to look is on the legislature web site: Oregon State Legislature - Bills and Laws



elsie
 
Well SO FAR my eyes have glazed over, and I have YET to find ANY version of HB-2797 that states a CHL cannot carry on any sort of public school grounds/buildings. Anyone else have a DIRECT link to said version?

I REALLY want to know.
 
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OFF's response:
Oregon Firearms Federation

06.07.11

A Response To Floyd Prozanski's Email. If You Are Taking Flak, You Must Be Over The Target.


As you can see here, Senator Floyd Prozanski has sent a mass email defending his record on gun rights and attacking OFF and me, Kevin Starrett, OFF's director. Here is my response.

Floyd starts by defending the gut and stuff he did to HB 2797, a bill intended to clarify lawful carry of firearms on motorcycles, ATVs and snowmobiles.

We should point out that early in the session we were warned that Prozanski planned to insert poison pills in any pro-gun legislation that came to his committee. In this case, he took a bill that was intended to do no more than fix a previous mistake (the dropping of the motorcycle language in SB 603 from 2009) and added Ginny Burdick's favorite fantasy, disarming law-abiding Oregonians in schools, including on college campuses.

Now it's interesting to note that while Prozanski claimed I used "scare tactics" to oppose this bill and that I am more interested in "drumming up contributions" he neglected to provide a single example of why disarming the innocent while doing nothing to stop criminals makes the slightest sense. Nor did he provide an explanation for why he thinks CHL holders suddenly become irresponsible or crazy when they step onto school property.

As for "drumming up contributions", as far as I can tell, not one alert dealing with Prozanski's gutting of bills asked for a dime.

It's not uncommon for those who hate gun owners and liberty to claim that OFF's motive is to get rich. But many of you know me, and for those who see what I drive to the Capitol to interface with people like Floyd, it should be obvious that getting rich is not my motivation.

Prozanski states that I have "testified that I believe all felons including murderers and rapists should be able to petition the court to restore their gun rights." Actually Floyd, the truth is, I think murderers and rapists should never be released from prison. Maybe people should take a close look at your positions on how we treat criminals.

It was a nice try, much like when he angrily asked Representative Kim Thatcher if she wanted to arm murderers, but it was so blatantly a "have you stopped beating your wife" type question that it hardly deserved a response.

And by the way, do you wonder why Floyd is so outraged that a person with a felony conviction (something you can get in Oregon for a driving infraction, no expungement allowed) can ask (just ask, not get) to get his rights restored, when it was Floyd who crafted the legislation that allows this? Floyd is a lawyer and a prosecutor, he is a veteran legislator. The bill passed out of his committee with his support and no opposition. It passed the full Senate, with no opposition, passed the full House with no opposition, and was returned to the Senate after minor changes were made in the House where Floyd again voted for it.

It is deeply troubling to think that a person with Floyd's experience has so little understanding of a bill he himself was responsible for, that he only "noticed" something was terribly "wrong" with the bill after it had gone through that much of the process.

Prozanski told me in a meeting, where other stake holders were present, that he knew something was "wrong" with the bill before the Governor signed it. Yet he did nothing.

In fact, there was nothing wrong with the bill. It did no more than allow a person who had made a mistake to seek redemption. Nothing in the bill gave rights back to felons, and if Prozanski thinks our courts will give gun rights back to murderers, he should ask himself why those people are out of prison to begin with, and why he trusts those crazy courts in the first place.

Prozanski goes on to say "Kevin also believes that a CHL holder should be able to carry a firearm into any public building including schools."

Yes, I do. I am sure that the thousands upon thousands of law-abiding gun owners with children in the government schools agree. As I said, Prozanski has provided not one single syllable to justify his desire to disarm the good people, except for the paranoid and delusional ravings of a handful of dishonest anti-gun zealots.

Prozanski says in his email "I have spoken to numerous OFF and NRA members who agree with me that certain felons should be prohibited from restoring their gun rights." I have no idea which NRA members Prozanski has spoken to, but not a single OFF member, not one, has ever contacted us to say that they opposed what we did when we changed the law to simply make sense. Prozanski has made this comment in the past, but I have yet to see any evidence that there is any truth to it. I think it would be difficult for OFF to continue our endless efforts to soak our supporters for donations if we took positions that they disagreed with.

I believe it is a horrible tragedy that Prozanski's sister was killed. But Prozanski's focus on the weapon used, while ignoring the fact that a person was responsible, is simply more evidence of how out of touch those who would disarm you are. The gun that was used in the killing of Prozanzki's sister was not self-animated. Those who have lost loved ones in vehicular homicides have not demanded that parents not drive on school grounds.

Prozanzki tries to make that case that he is not "anti-gun" by making note of the fact that the bill he mangled includes language to keep CHL info private. This is interesting since he refused to even hear a Senate Bill that would do the same thing, because in his own words, "my caucus does not support it." But given the opportunity to strip good people of their rights to protect themselves, Prozanski was willing to insert that language in order to create a facade while viciously attacking the most law-abiding. It's unlikely that he will convince too many people, but it certainly proves that our information on his "poison pill" plans was accurate.

Prozanski also takes a swipe at Senator Jeff Kruse saying: "Some of you may have also received an e-newsletter from Senator Jeff Kruse making inaccurate claims about the bill, the committee process, and my intentions and position on these gun bills. It is unfortunate, because misinformation does a service to no one. Even though Jeff claims that I am "anti-gun" (I am not) he in fact voted with me and the three other committee members to amend another firearms bill, HB 2792, to pass it to the Senate floor with a "do pass" recommendation."

In fact, Kruse's newsletter was not at all inaccurate. Prozanski is clearly and undeniably anti-gun and no amount of protestation otherwise can change his record. But he is right about one thing. Kruse did go along with Prozanski when he gut and stuffed HB 2792, for reasons that still escape me. Kruse has always been a solid pro-gun vote, so this capitulation is inexplicable, but Prozanski's attack should serve as a reminder that trying to get along with the anti-gun extremists is a losing proposition.

Obviously we have touched a nerve with Senator Prozanski, but I stand by each and every word that has been sent to OFF supporters about his actions and his record.

Prozanski accuses me of spreading "misinformation" but, as always, provides not one word of evidence for his false accusation.

Some of these bills are still "in play" so we still need to be vigilant and monitor the process. This session is not over by a long shot. If you received Prozanski's email it is because you stepped up to confront the tactics of the freedom haters. For that I thank you. Your perseverance and activism continue to make a difference that cannot be measured.

Best regards,
Kevin Starrett

ADDED JUNE 8. Despite what Prozanski said in his email, we have not posted "photo shopped" pictures, or any pictures of him in any of our alerts this year. We do not even own Photo Shop. Please keep that in mind as you assess the accuracy of his other claims.
 

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