Occufight, anyone going to watch?

[shibbershabber]

You mean Obama's jobs bill. Lots of incentives to hire, though only for one year. Remember the jobs bill, the one to "pass right away"? Whatever happened to that? What a weak president.

Nope, increasing tax rates from what, 35%, to over 90% is not going to promote slow and steady sustainable growth. It will, however, finish off the businesses that have not yet relocated overseas as well as dramatically increase the price on most everything, including food. That should help the poor, right?

We should take this over to the politic site, it has nothing to do with guns or the OP. Go here: <broken link removed>

Well lets keep in mind that I never mentioned Obama... Except the part where I called him a fraud and a sell out. So dont try to throw him or his crap policies at me.

I understand that is your position. How do you explain the success of America during that 91% tax rate? Other than talking points and opinion... how did America last so long and continue to be a major power with tax rates that high?

I see you pumping that website again... Ill get there eventually... Must not have enough lefties over there. But we are in the OFF TOPIC forum so Ill stay here for the time being.

 

[Buddhalux]

Banning all lobbyists and removing all pay for civil duty i.e. politicians is a good start. They also all need to be put into the SS pool with every other citizen. They don't deserve instant retirement and health care for life for 1 day in office if average citizens don't get the same.

 

[gunnoob75]

I understand that is your position. How do you explain the success of America during that 91% tax rate? Other than talking points and opinion... how did America last so long and continue to be a major power with tax rates that high?

It wasn't nearly as easy to just pick up and move across the pond, for one.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I love it how SS claims that things were great when the corporate tax rate was 90+% then says you can't go back, and that the days of your grand dad are gone,...
YA THINK?!? LOL
We have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, as well as the most liberal and expensive pension systems in the world, and wonder why our manufacturing goes elsewhere.

You lefties are hilarious, considering that pelosi, reid and obama all claim to support the occupy movement, when these are the facts.
Obama's campaign "war chest" of 2008 was funded by:
Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets

University of California (At Berkley) $1,648,685

Goldman Sachs $1,013,091

Harvard University $878,164

Microsoft Corp $852,167

Google Inc $814,540

JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799

Citigroup Inc $736,771

Time Warner $624,618

Sidley Austin LLP $600,298 International business law firm with offices in Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York, Washington DC, London, Singapore and Tokyo.

Stanford University $595,716

National Amusements Inc $563,798

WilmerHale LLP $550,668 Leading law firm with securities, litigation, regulation, intellectual property and transactional practices. The firm is 1000 lawyers strong in 12 cities worldwide.

Columbia University $547,852

Skadden, Arps et al $543,539 Skadden, Arps et al, an international law firm, is perhaps best known politically in the United States for its lobbying arm, and as a clearinghouse for donors to the Democratic Party. Lobbyists working for Skadden, Arps represent some of the largest political players outside of elected office, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S. Steel. And it's the firm's individual employees, as well as their immediate family members, who come out in droves for Democrats.

UBS AG $532,674

IBM Corp $532,372

General Electric $529,855

US Government $513,308 (???)

Morgan Stanley $512,232

Latham & Watkins $503,295 Latham & Watkins LLP is a global law firm, one of the largest in the world. Latham currently employs approximately 2,000 attorneys in the United States, Europe, the Middle East and Asia.

So our president's political "war chest" was bought and paid for by INTERNATIONAL LEGAL firms, MEGA banks and the liberal think tanks that masquerade as colleges/universities, and are funded primarily by the student loans that occupyers want paid off by government decree.
Buy yourselves a set of clues guys.
You love to "follow the money?" Then try doing it yourselves.

Look, there are two ways to think about the latest political movements. The TEA party and/or the occupyers:
Should we give away massive amounts of taxpayer funds to banks and corps and complain (protest and occupy) that they don't "share" those funds?
Or should we do like the TEA party wants us to, and tell the dotgov that we think they should stop handing out massive wads of cash, and passing the bill on to generations of our children and grandchildren?

You decide. But, in making your decision, please remember that the dotgov has NO MONEY to give you that they have not taken from someone else first.

 

[shibbershabber]

It wasn't nearly as easy to just pick up and move across the pond, for one.

Exactly. Because we also had protectionist trade policies that protected American industry from foreign slave wages.
We didnt give tax breaks to companies for leaving the country.

And yet, we made it didnt we? We had a strong country and a strong economy. How can you account for this?

 

[The B]

Exactly. Because we also had protectionist trade policies that protected American industry from foreign slave wages.
We didnt give tax breaks to companies for leaving the country.

And yet, we made it didnt we? We had a strong country and a strong economy. How can you account for this?

low income tax, high tariffs, booming industry.

we live in a post-industrial economy, now- those days are over. from here out, you'll need an IT degree just to make a living wage- and nothing more. but most will settle on walmart-supplemented welfare.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

This whole argument just illustrates how hard it is to have opinions that do not conform to the opinions of either extreme. I believe that opportunity no longer exists in this country to any real degree, but I also believe there are way too many people that have never done anything to deserve anything. I believe that success should be as easy for a person born poor as it should be for a person born wealthy but should be guaranteed for no one. I believe a strong central government (for the people of the people) is absolutely essential for s strong and free nation but I also believe government has become completely corrupt and both sides are nothing but smoke screens used by corporations to disguise their complete control of government. I believe in freedom from excess taxation but I believe everyone should pay their share to support their nation and their way of life. I believe in a free market but I also believe the government has a duty to protect the people from abuse by large companies. I believe in the rights of individuals to unionize and the value of unions but I also believe many unions have become corrupt and only protect the lazy and connected. I believe in a companies or individuals right to earn as much money as they possibly can but I do not agree with them using that money to create an unfair environment to ensure their continued success and increased profitability at the expense of others. I believe it is the role of government to prevent discrimination against minorities but I do not believe in creating protected classes. I agree with the rights of labor to be treated fairly and paid fairly but I also agree that employers should have the right to fire lazy *** people and incompetent people. I believe in the right of protesters to peacefully assemble without persecution but I also think those groups have an obligation to police the less desirable elements in their midst and to maintain certain levels of civility. I believe a lot of people have the right idea about limiting the powers of government but I also believe many people are simply being duped by corporations into weakening the only thing that stands between them and complete unopposed reign. I believe many people really care about the issues but I also feel many people are just loud mouthed hypocrites motivated by anger and fear who have no understanding of issues that want things cut until it affects them. I believe in a responsible welfare system but I hate people who abuse the system and feel it is an entitlement. I believe in legal immigration and freedom from persecution for immigrants but I believe in kicking illegals and all their children (no matter where they were born) back across the border with no reservation what-so-ever. I believe in the right of forum members to post long winded, self-indulgent rants while waiting for their son's school bus but I understand most people will rightly stop reading after the first few sentences.

 

[michaels]

Hi Jamie, 2 things.

1) Do not fall into the false split of TP vs. OWS.
That's bull.

2) as far as politicians claiming to support OWS, that's bull too.
And the people know it. I wqill repeat this again, occupy people are incredibly mad with dotgov, and are also very aware of who funds obama.
This is why it remains a movement without sitting politicians. The msm doesn't report this, but liberal politicians who show up to co opt this movement are mercilessly heckled.

 

[Rapid1]

As mentioned before, Where does Government corruption come from? You and I?
No, it comes from massive amounts of money that flow out of the private sector and into congress. These corporations and spec.int. groups have the power to influence legislation and elections.


As mentioned previously... You seem to believe that govt is the problem. Govt is the problem because they are corrupted. They are corrupted by money, big money from big corps... easy right? Well take the money out of the equation and you have solved the problem.
The govt is a failure because it has been legislated into a weak top heavy mess. Government can work, if it is allowed to. But the right wing agenda is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They weaken government to the point of breaking and stand back and say " hey look, government cant do anything right " It wasnt always this way.

The Government (we the people) is suppose to BE you and I. The only way we the people have any control over business and commerce is thru our government or our purchasing power. You can't take money out of the equation without limiting everyone in that regard.

No matter how you slice it, legislate out the top 1% and now you have the rest of the 99% and with our current political setup, another 1% would come out, just a little bit lower on the scale. You can chip off the top continually until until all are at the same level, then our government, in it's current form, will shake us all down and become the 1%. That, my friend, is called socialism.

If we don't fix our political system corruption, there will never be an end to this mess. Our politicians are the ones that have enabled this corruption by legislation that they created. Did any of you ever have a vote in our politicians pay plans? retirement? term limit? No, they voted all of this stuff in for themselves. Just as they legislate the rules and regulations for corporations and other special interest groups to benefit themselves. We the people? I think our politicos are just the opposite.

Now, where did you say the root of the problem is? If you want to kill a tree, do you just cut off the top few (1%) of the branches? LOL, no, you kill it at the root...

 

[Burt Gummer]

Good OWS article:

The Police State Vs. Occupy Wall Street: This Is Not Going To End Well For Any Of Us

 

[locobob]

If there is anger at corruption in govt, then why aren't they putting the pressure on at the govt. offices instead of the financial institutions? Again I say, the buck stops with the elected officials running our govt. Cut and dry. Getting mad at the the institutions that are corrupting the govt. is just like blaming beer for drunk driving. Blaming guns for crime. etc.... Same line of thinking. How about holding accountable those who are ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE?

I am going to have to disagree with your analogy: beer and guns are inanimate objects, financial institutions are not. If you get pulled over for speeding and successfully bribe the cop to let you off who has committed a crime?....... both you and the cop.
When corporations bribe politicians who is guilty of unethical behavior?...... both the corporations and the politicians.

 

[Rapid1]

I am going to have to disagree with your analogy: beer and guns are inanimate objects, financial institutions are not. If you get pulled over for speeding and successfully bribe the cop to let you off who has committed a crime?....... both you and the cop.
When corporations bribe politicians who is guilty of unethical behavior?...... both the corporations and the politicians.

Ahh, but there you have it...it is not against the law to pour money at your favorite politician...the politicians see to that. Ethics? LOL...what makes you think the either entity has any ethics? Politicians at least have to swear oaths...corporations do not. The whole occupy movement is focused on the wrong thing...that is why it is made up of the types you see...most are either misguided or don't really have a clue. Easy to lead folks like that around by the nose...

 

[Bigfoot]

Occufight is on in NY.

At about the same time, a contingent of protesters decided to storm City Hall, but unknowingly ran to the Department of Education building on Chambers Street. Once there, they comically chanted, "Bloomberg must go! Bloomberg must go!"

Finally, one of the clueless demonstrators realized the mistake and told the others: "This isn't City Hall?"

They then ran to 1 Centre Street, where one exclaimed: "There it is! That's City Hall!" and the chanting resumed.

Read more: Protesters cause mayhem across city, 177 arrested - NYPOST.com

You can't make this stuff up. Apparently protesting the Dept of Education is appropriate but I doubt these idiots grasp the irony.

 

[armedredneck]

I am going to have to disagree with your analogy: beer and guns are inanimate objects, financial institutions are not. If you get pulled over for speeding and successfully bribe the cop to let you off who has committed a crime?....... both you and the cop.
When corporations bribe politicians who is guilty of unethical behavior?...... both the corporations and the politicians.

I understand your point, however, CORPORATIONS ARE NOT ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE!!!

It's really quite simple.

 

[locobob]

I understand your point, however, CORPORATIONS ARE NOT ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE!!!

It's really quite simple.

This should be true, however most of our politicians are no longer representatives of the people either. Our political system has been transformed into pay to play. You need big money to get elected therefore a deal with the Devil must be struck.
What is really needed is a major overhaul of campaign finance and lobbying. I think that much of OWS does understand the corporate/political relationship - perhaps they need to focus more on this aspect of the message.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

This is should be true, however most of our politicians are no longer representatives of the people either. Our political system has been transformed into pay to play. You need big money to get elected therefore a deal with the Devil must be struck.
What is really needed is a major overhaul of campaign finance and lobbying. I think that much of OWS does understand the corporate/political relationship - perhaps they need to focus more on this aspect of the message.

I agree completely that the election system needs to be completely overhauled and big money needs to be taken out of the equation. Where I get hung up is how we do that without bogging down the election system with every crackpot that demands equal time and funds.

 

[locobob]

I agree completely that the election system needs to be completely overhauled and big money needs to be taken out of the equation. Where I get hung up is how we do that without bogging down the election system with every crackpot that demands equal time and funds.

Good question, my thought is to start with a signature requirement then weed out candidates through a series of publicly funded debates and primarys. We should just outlaw most types of campaign advertising - is it really free speech if only a few can afford it? Has anyone here ever learned anything of value from a 30 second TV political ad? I think this could be done Constitutionally under the umbrella of "time, place and manner" restrictions.

 

[Rapid1]

I agree completely that the election system needs to be completely overhauled and big money needs to be taken out of the equation. Where I get hung up is how we do that without bogging down the election system with every crackpot that demands equal time and funds.

you mean you would rather have it as it is now than how it is suppose to be? crackpots? people with ideas you don't agree with? nevertheless, it will probably never change...certainly not by those serving (LOL) now.

 

[Chee-to]

This is what these spoiled Portland "socialist brats" think of the flag, friggin' asshats ! Shouting down with Capitalism !!

 

[locobob]

This is what these spoiled Portland commie brats think of the flag, friggin' asshats !

Frankly I think that is a pretty accurate depiction of the current state of affairs in this country. The flag is but a symbol, a symbol of a nation that is supposed to be: By the people, for the people and of the people. Those grand ideas have been turned on their head and in this pic so has the flag. Now if they were stomping on it in the street and chanting "death to the USA" that would be another matter and I'd be inclined to agree with you.