Occufight, anyone going to watch?

[Chee-to]

Frankly I think that is a pretty accurate depiction of the current state of affairs in this country. The flag is but a symbol, a symbol of a nation that is supposed to be: By the people, for the people and of the people. Those grand ideas have been turned on their head and in this pic so has the flag. Now if they were stomping on it in the street and chanting "death to the USA" that would be another matter and I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Well, I guess that you one of them, and categorized the same.................

 

[locobob]

Well, I guess that you one of them, and categorized the same.................

As what? A commie? I'm actually still a registered Republican... although I plan to switch to Independent soon.
Perhaps you should stop living in 1920 or 1955.... the "Red Scare" is over. I haven't seen any protestors waving the "Hammer and Sickle"..... but I have seen quite a few with the "Gadsden flag". For those who aren't familiar that's the flag from the American Revolution that says "Don't Tread on Me".

 

[shibbershabber]

T
No matter how you slice it, legislate out the top 1% and now you have the rest of the 99% and with our current political setup, another 1% would come out, just a little bit lower on the scale. You can chip off the top continually until until all are at the same level, then our government, in it's current form, will shake us all down and become the 1%. That, my friend, is called socialism.

No, that would be Communism.

But all that aside. You could look at this in a circular way, and never get anywhere. They are the one percent because of the govt, the govt is the way they are because of the 1%... The issue is the money. Take the money out of politics. Take away corporate personhood. Dumping endless amounts of cash into campaigns and lobbying IS NOT FREE SPEECH! IT IS UNFAIRLY INFLUENCING ELECTIONS!

Thats it. Ill boil down the Occupy Movement into one simple statement. One that will address a majority of their complaints.

Corporations are NOT people, Money is NOT speech.

 

[Chee-to]

As what? A commie? I'm actually still a registered Republican... although I plan to switch to Independent soon.
Perhaps you should stop living in 1920 or 1955.... the "Red Scare" is over. I haven't seen any protestors waving the "Hammer and Sickle"..... but I have seen quite a few with the "Gadsden flag". For those who aren't familiar that's the flag from the American Revolution that says "Don't Tread on Me".

I'm not going to banter with you it would be a total waste of time, to many of my brothers died for that flag. I don't have a problem with protesting, that's what that " symbol " is all about, there's many things I don't agree with in America, but it's the best thing going right now. Now, if you know of a better place, GO !

 

[locobob]

I'm not going to banter with you it would be a total waste of time, to many of my brothers died for that flag. I don't have a problem with protesting, that's what that " symbol " is all about, there's many things I don't agree with in America, but it's the best thing going right now. Now, if you know of a better place, GO !

No thanks, I won't flee my country. I will stay and try to make it a place consistent with of the ideals espoused by its founders.

 

[marty8587]

Might go to watch if I can stay awake.

12 am, who's going? Check in and sound off

SEE WACHA STARTED? Well done.

 

[MikeE]

This is what these spoiled Portland commie brats think of the flag, friggin' asshats ! Shouting down with Capitalism !!

Down with Capitalism!
(couldn't resist...)

 

[Rapid1]

No, that would be Communism.

But all that aside. You could look at this in a circular way, and never get anywhere. They are the one percent because of the govt, the govt is the way they are because of the 1%... The issue is the money. Take the money out of politics. Take away corporate personhood. Dumping endless amounts of cash into campaigns and lobbying IS NOT FREE SPEECH! IT IS UNFAIRLY INFLUENCING ELECTIONS!

Thats it. Ill boil down the Occupy Movement into one simple statement. One that will address a majority of their complaints.

Corporations are NOT people, Money is NOT speech.

ok man, whatever you say but I just thought with communism, you didnt get to elect those that fleece you...the 1% issue is not circular, its linear and it ends at the bottom...corporate personhood is a product of our current political administration and it can only influence that which can be influenced.

glad to hear you understand the Occupy folks and can sum up it up for them. large corporations are nothing but people, a collection of people with their own political system where they elect boardmembers who then run the company, hopefully for a profit. not sure what you meant by money is not speech but perhaps some reference to "put your money where your mouth is"? how bout we make it where no politician can take money from anyone? be it campaign, perks, insider hints, or any other influences that might actually further their personal gain? perhaps make a law against it that they could not vote themselves immune from? maybe we could prosecute them for their transgressions?

The Occupy movement is way past protesting, they are disrupting.

 

[Douglas]

On a forum based on firearms the longest threads have nothing to do with firearms.

 

[shibbershabber]

ok man, whatever you say but I just thought with communism, you didnt get to elect those that fleece you...the 1% issue is not circular, its linear and it ends at the bottom...corporate personhood is a product of our current political administration and it can only influence that which can be influenced.

glad to hear you understand the Occupy folks and can sum up it up for them. large corporations are nothing but people, a collection of people with their own political system where they elect boardmembers who then run the company, hopefully for a profit. not sure what you meant by money is not speech but perhaps some reference to "put your money where your mouth is"? how bout we make it where no politician can take money from anyone? be it campaign, perks, insider hints, or any other influences that might actually further their personal gain? perhaps make a law against it that they could not vote themselves immune from? maybe we could prosecute them for their transgressions?

The Occupy movement is way past protesting, they are disrupting.

The Corporate personhood thing has been around for a long time. Basically it says that a corp can act as a person with all the same rights as an individual.

Money is NOT speech. That means that we want to overturn the "Citizens United" case which says that since corps are people, they are entitles to the first amendment freedom of speech... their speech is money. They can give unlimited, undisclosed amounts of money to campaigns, PACs, etc... millions upon millions of dollars to influence elections and legislation because their money is their free speech.

Campaign contributions and other political influence money should be limited and capped to ensure that the govt stays of the people and for the people... When they do not wield the same kind of power that they do now, we have more of a voice as individual citizens.

If corporations are people, they should be limited by regulations and laws like the rest of us are. And if they arent people, they can and should be controlled and molded in the most responsible way possible because they are an artificial creation not protected by the Bill of Rights. Either way, they shouldnt have the power they do.


so, thats why CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE AND MONEY IS NOT SPEECH

movetoamend.org

 

[Chee-to]

No thanks, I won't flee my country. I will stay and try to make it a place consistent with of the ideals espoused by its founders.

That's right, cuz there ain't no better place................

 

[shibbershabber]

I love it how SS claims that things were great when the corporate tax rate was 90+% then says you can't go back, and that the days of your grand dad are gone,...
YA THINK?!? LOL
We have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, as well as the most liberal and expensive pension systems in the world, and wonder why our manufacturing goes elsewhere.

Im glad you love that I said that... I still dont know what you mean. Both statements are true.
If we were able to prosper and grow as a nation under that high of a tax rate, I think that stands alone as proof that raising their taxes will be beneficial to the entire country.
But, alas, the days of our grandads are gone... that doesnt mean that they cant come back.

Corporations didnt flee the country under 91% tax rate back then... yet now that its 30% and they can get out of paying most of that, I dont see what the complaint is.
Its just cheaper to do business over there. Labor is next to nothing and there are no environmental standards. And they can write off their foregin profits and costs asociated with moving overseas.
So, does that mean that we should work for bubblegum wages too and let them dump their waste as they please because it is cheaper than doing the right thing? Have some pride man, this is America. We should demand the best wages and the best benefits.

You expect your elected officials to be honest, ethical and to do the right thing. You vote against them and speak out against them if they do not.
You do not respect a man who is dishonest and doesnt deal fairly in his life
But when big business acts dishonestly, cheats and lies... you think its okay because they are just trying to be profitable and the government has no business regulating their behavior.

You feel that a man should live by the law and be responsible for his own actions.
But a large corporation can act like a spoiled child... and if they are threatened with reprimand, they just pack up and leave so they can set up shop someplace else.

We were successful under that high tax rate, it made business accountable and responsible. They couldnt pack up and go exploit cheap labor, etc because we had TARIFFS that would prevent them from bringing their foreign made stuff back into the country without paying a price... essentially taking the profit out of their exploitative operation.

SO Im not sure what side of this issue you fall on... but if you disagree with me, there is your rebuttal.


Again... Obama is a corporatist joke just like his predecessors. Its no secret that he is a sell out.

But unlike Communism where you can vote all you want... but you are voting for a candidate from the same party. We have a two party system and call it democratic. there is no real choice. YOu can have a republican or a democrat, both of which have been preselected by the powers that be and are endorsed by big media! You have the illusion of choice, and they will sell you on wedge issues everytime.

 

[Burt Gummer]

SS - it is sure refreshing to hear from someone like you that understands our entire politician system is a fraud and that every important politician is bought/pre-selected, NOT elected. The entire system is there to give slaves the illusion of freedom. Thumbs up my friend.

 

[slowstang11]

This is what these spoiled Portland "socialist brats" think of the flag, friggin' a hats ! Shouting down with Capitalism !!

The upside down flag is a symbol of extreme distress... like a cry for help. It's not meant to be like defacing or anything.