National NRA Dirty Laundry aired

[ConcernedCitizen]

OK, but no whining when you get to watch your guns cut up by the goobermint. It's a comin'.

Kinda like having to watch people turn in bumpstocks?

Let's see you defend the NRA on that position.

Until Wayne LaPierre, Chris Cox, and Marion Hammer are gone, the NRA will NEVER improve. Just a few years ago they got scared, and changed the rules regarding elections in an attempt to prevent any new blood from running for the Board of Directors. They raised the number of signatures needed to get on the ballot, in what appeared to be a targeted campaign to prevent Adam Kraut from getting elected. Marion Hammer went so far as to call him "the enemy within", without naming him directly, of course.

By the way, does anyone know how many meetings Marion Hammer has attended recently? Last I heard, she hasn't attended any meetings in 3 YEARS, yet still somehow manages to collect her $300,000+ salary each year...

The executives have pretty much legislated themselves into a permanent position of power, and have essentially become petty tyrants and dictators. Any attempt to oust them now will result in a veritable bloodbath. It's quite clear to me that they care more about their salaries than our rights.

Why is it they ignore or even oppose any law suits that would actually recover some our rights, while actively "compromising" or even straight up recommending additional restrictions and regulations? Why are there so many gun grabbers with an A recommendation from the NRA, while the NRA seems to actively oppose the most 2A candidates by supporting their rivals? It happens time and time again.

Quite simply, the NRA executives are far more concerned about keeping their status quo than in keeping our rights intact.

At this point, I am practically convised that one or more people in the NRA have been compromised, or have possibly sold out, as the NRA has been actively working against our best interests, not for them.

For those of you stalwarts that will stand behind the NRA until your dying breath, I suggest you step back and take a look at their actions, not just their name.

To blindly support the NRA is the same as blindly supporting McCain or Romney simply because they have an (R) by their name.

Judge the NRA by their current actions, not by your fond memories of the NRA of yesteryear, which have been tainted by the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia.

Open your eyes, and see for yourself.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Not only have they done good in the past, they are still doing it. Here's the 2016 annual statement of the NRA Foundation. Scroll down and look at the money they give to MANY clubs in the states. I suspect this activity goes a long way to attract new gun sports enthusiasts. That's one thing we desperately need or else our gun rights WILL go away. Take a peek:

https://www.nrafoundation.org/media/2082/16nrafannualreportweb1.pdf

That's a rather self-serving motive, in my opinion. Donating money to shooting clubs is great, but how much of that is intended to increase NRA membership? After all, I know of a few clubs where NRA membership is mandatory. Any guesses on whether the NRA had a hand in lobbying for that?

If they really wanted to protect our rights, they would be putting everything they can into stopping anti-2A laws, rather than constantly compromising away our rights a little at a time. Sure, they may have stopped or slowed a few, but at what cost? When's the last time the NRA actually regained some of our rights, rather than gave them away?

The NRA should be looked at like Big Pharma. There's no money in the cure, so all they do is offer treatments, prophylactics, and placebos. I honestly believe they help create hysteria in order to use fear to drive their constant fundraising. It's just like taxes; when they want a tax increase they always threaten to cut school and fire department funding first.

If you're concerned about funding for clubs, imagine if the NRA stopped mailing out all of the constant junk mail that is always begging for more money, stopped offering the cheap made-in-China knives or duffle bags with memberships, and stopped paying for all of those phone surveys that only ask one-sided questions. Imagine how much money could be saved by eliminating all of this propaganda, which can then be focused on what really matters.

At this point, it seems the NRA's only goal is fundraising for the NRA, which then gets used to fund more fundraising for the NRA..

If the NRA wants more support, they should earn it rather than beg for it.

Start returning our rights instead of slowly compromising them away, and I have a feeling they will get the support they need.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Quote: "Kinda like having to watch people turn in bumpstocks?

Let's see you defend the NRA on that position"

This is gonna be unpopular. Bumpstocks were illegal the day they made the first one. They ESSENTIALLY turn the gun into a machine gun which is illegal. Should MGs be illegal? No. Should they have banned BSs? No, but our side was, and still is, on extreme defense, due to a string of high-profile mass shootings. Will it come back to bite us in the future? Probably, but until we are willing to get it on for real, we have to play the politics game. We don't have the numbers to force our postion on the antis - and if we keep bickering and backstabbing our NRA allies because of bad apples in the organization, we will have zero chance of winning. That is the EXACT reason the articles in the OP were written. Based on many comments here, it's working like a charm.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Quote: "Kinda like having to watch people turn in bumpstocks?

Let's see you defend the NRA on that position"

This is gonna be unpopular. Bumpstocks were illegal the day they made the first one. They ESSENTIALLY turn the gun into a machine gun which is illegal. Should MGs be illegal? No. Should they have banned BSs? No, but our side was, and still is, on extreme defense, due to a string of high-profile mass shootings. Will it come back to bite us in the future? Probably, but until we are willing to get it on for real, we have to play the politics game. We don't have the numbers to force our postion on the antis - and if we keep bickering and backstabbing our NRA allies because of bad apples in the organization, we will have zero chance of winning. That is the EXACT reason the articles in the OP were written. Based on many comments here, it's working like a charm.

That opinion should be unpopular, because it is incorrect.

Words have meanings, and by the definition of the law a bumpstock is not, nor has it ever been, a machinegun. This has been confirmed and upheld by the ATF multiple times, until the most recent "reinterpretation", which was SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED BY THE NRA!

I can bumpfire from the shoulder with no need for a bumpstock, belt loops, or shoelaces. Does that make my rifle, my finger, or ME the machinegun?

 

[NW Backpacker]

That opinion should be unpopular, because it is incorrect.

Words have meanings, and by the definition of the law a bumpstock is not, nor has it ever been, a machinegun. This has been confirmed by the ATF multiple times, until the most recent "reinterpretation" which was DELIBERATELY REQUESTED BY THE NRA!

Told ya it would be unpopular!

Just think of the NRA being like a wild animal that wandered from the herd and got in trouble. You just want to help it out:

 

[Alexx1401]

Damn, as if we needed yet one more thing to make this worse. We already have a large percentage of gun owners who actively go about trying to sabotage our rights, so now we have this for people to point at.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Damn, as if we needed yet one more thing to make this worse. We already have a large percentage of gun owners who actively go about trying to sabotage our rights, so now we have this for people to point at.

Blame the NRA, not the people questioning them and their motives.

At this point, they look just as corrupt, if not more so, as the government they are lobbying against.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Told ya it would be unpopular!

Just think of the NRA being like a wild animal that wandered from the herd and got in trouble. You just want to help it out:

A better analogy is that NRA members are a horse being lead around by a carrot, while the Lords and Ladies of the NRA ride comfortably in their chariot.

They dangle a treat in front of us, yet we never get the reward, meanwhile they are profiting from our labor.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Blame the NRA, not the people questioning them and their motives.

At this point, they look just as corrupt, if not more so, as the government they are lobbying against.

You're way too generous to the NRA. Check out the comments on this Sootch00 video:

The antis are winning.

 

[Alexx1401]

Blame the NRA, not the people questioning them and their motives.

At this point, they look just as corrupt, if not more so, as the government they are lobbying against.

That is not what I mean. We have a large percentage of gun owners who are hell bent on making sure gun rights are lost. Just look at last few elections in WA and OR. Then on top of that it looks like the top brass of the NRA has shown they are no better than most politicians. Just what we needed, one more hit on gun rights. This will give the gun owners who refuse to help one more excuse to do nothing or openly work against gun rights. As if we needed any more help making this worse.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

That is not what I mean. We have a large percentage of gun owners who are hell bent on making sure gun rights are lost. Just look at last few elections in WA and OR. Then on top of that it looks like the top brass of the NRA has shown they are no better than most politicians. Just what we needed, one more hit on gun rights. This will give the gun owners who refuse to help one more excuse to do nothing or openly work against gun rights. As if we needed any more help making this worse.

I fear that it's worse than that...

If you look closely at everything the NRA has done over the last few years, it looks rather suspicious. Look at the cases they do or don't take, the laws they do or don't fight against, the candidates they do or don't support, the statements they give vs when they remain silent, when they stand firm or compromise, and most recently the fact that they are now actively seeking and promoting gun control.

I am almost completely convinced that one or more influential members have been compromised or have sold out, and are now dancing to the strings of a different master.

Their behavior is far from what the NRA was renowned for, and in most cases is actually detrimental to gun owners. I truly believe they have been subverted from within, unless what we are seeing is just pure greed from the executives members.

Something is rotten in Demmark...

 

[Alexx1401]

I truly believe they have been subverted from within, unless what we are seeing is just pure greed from the executives members.

Something is rotten in Demmark...

Sounds like the simple answer is exactly what it is, greed. Some people found a way to make big money. As for the "compromises" I have long said what do gun owners expect? A crap load of gun owners work to elect people like the Governor of OR and WA. So what are support groups supposed to do? If gun owners are determined to elect anti gun politicians what exactly is any gun rights organization supposed to do? Too many gun owners are their own worst enemy's. They voted Kate in twice now in OR, then scream at the NRA? Looks like the NRA has not done themselves any favors but they, or any other pro gun organization is fighting an up hill battle. So many gun owners are determined to shoot themselves in the foot every election.

 

[OldBroad44]

"the gun lobby is not a bunch of overpaid suits in Washington DC. If the NRA disappeared tomorrow, the gun lobby would still be just as powerful, because the gun lobby isn't the NRA, it's the NRA members and tens of millions of dedicated patriots just like you, scattered throughout this wide land."

Wishful thinking on the part of someone. The gun lobby IS the NRA, and all the other 2A groups combined. Scattered patriots have NO political power. Only when we are united to fight antis do we have any power - and even then, in today's environment we are struggling. Typically the smaller organizations team up with the NRA. Support as many as you can.

Looks to me that its the small orgs these days that are doing the serious political and legal fighting, and the NRA joins later, provides little or no funding, and takes all the credit.

 

[surevaliance]

I almost got my s kicked off from another forum last year by saying that NRA stands for No Real Action.
It is very sad that American firearms' enthusiasts have no allies on the political scene.

 

[Alexx1401]

I almost got my s kicked off from another forum last year by saying that NRA stands for No Real Action.
It is very sad that American firearms' enthusiasts have no allies on the political scene.

Certainly NOT trying to defend the NRA in this but, what are politicians supposed to do when gun owners go out of their way to elect people like the shining governors we have in WA and OR? Gun owners worked to put these two clowns in office. So exactly what is some organization supposed to do to stop this? A LOT of gun owners have been lamenting that Clinton lost. So some new organization is going to do what to fix this?

 

[284guy]

You guys are so short sighted. They are without a doubt the biggest pro 2A lobbying group, and politicians are scared of them, but hell, why not just get rid of them. Once they are gone, and the politicians do as they like, let's watch you whine then. "Never underestimate stupid people in large masses" comes to mind.

 

[OldBroad44]

Just like every other organization.
90% goes to salary and bonuses and maybe 10% goes to their "cause"

The leaders always get rich while their company fails.

No. Not good orgs. A charity that spends 90 percent of the funds on salaries for administrators should not be supported. There are charity watch orgs that identify these so wise contributors can avoid them.

And its usually not possible to fix a department or org that has gone even a small fraction of as far wrong as NRA has gone. A good turn-around guy would respond to the NRA situation by firing the board and every other employee in a position of power and replacing them all. But they have made it impossible for the membership to replace or hold the board or administration accountable in any way. This means this org is not fixable.

I agree that it is important to judge todays NRA by its actions rather by our impressions from times past. Their main contribution these days seems to be working against 2A interests so as to make gun rights more threatened. This is presumably because actually successfully blocking pro-2A legislation, let alone passing more pro-2A leslation would make gun owners feel less threatened and would make it harder for them to raise the funds for their huge salaries. Their financial interests are actually best served by subtly non-obviously attacking 2A rights so gun people are as insecure as possible.

I've belonged to NRA in the past. Not today. These days, I feel that there are other gun orgs that deserve my support more.

 

[The Heretic]

Almost any organization, from small HOAs to huge orgs like the NRA, will have internal politics.

Throw in money and power, and the chances of internal politics getting messy, possibly evolving into corruption, increases by orders of magnitude.

I no longer belong to NRA due in part to their internal politics, but mostly (among other things) because they often support politicians solely based on their membership in the GOP rather than their position on the Second Amendment. Other reasons are the compromises they make - e.g., FOPA where they threw NFA owners, present and future, to the wolves in order to get interstate protection for a subsection of gun owners.

I could go on, but suffice to say that I put my support behind GOA and similar orgs instead of the NRA. Not that the NRA doesn't do good sometimes, but I think my support is better off with other orgs where I have a better chance of not getting blindsided or backstabbed by politics.

 

[surevaliance]

You guys are so short sighted. They are without a doubt the biggest pro 2A lobbying group, and politicians are scared of them, but hell, why not just get rid of them. Once they are gone, and the politicians do as they like, let's watch you whine then. "Never underestimate stupid people in large masses" comes to mind.

Lol! This made Bloomberg's day!
NRA's fat cats ARE politicians, who are sold out to Global Corporations.
And those Global Corporations need more slaves, not armed Citizens.

 

[284guy]

Lol! This made Bloomberg's day!
NRA's fat cats ARE politicians, who are sold out to Global Corporations.
And those Global Corporations need more slaves, not armed Citizens.

Clearly you have no comprehension of the subject.