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NRA-Republican Backed Bill Makes It Easier For Feds To Disarm Citizens

While Ryan McMaken has noted the danger in further centralizing gun legislation, there is another deeply troubling aspect to this bill: it expands the ability of the Federal government to restrict Americans' right to bear arms.

During the legislative process, the NRA supported merging the bill aimed at nationalizing concealed carry permits with another piece of legislation aimed at "fixing" the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS.) Obviously this legislation was inspired by the failure of the US Air Force to report the criminal record of Devin Kelley, who went on to commit a horrific shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas. While the motivation to do something after this atrocity is entirely natural, unfortunately this bill is simply another example of the Federal government using its own failure to justify expanding its own power.

After all, the "Fix NICS" bill doesn't seek to punish the US Air Force for its failure to properly process paperwork. Instead, it provides $760 million in additional funding for the Department of Justice to establish new guidelines to ensure compliance among Federal agencies. That funding can also be used "to ensure maximum coordination" between State government and Indian tribes with the NICS.

While the idea of bolstering the already existing Federal gun registry may strike some as relatively benign, it's important to understand how it has been used in the past.

As Congressman Thomas Massie noted in his own criticism of the bill:



When President Obama couldn't get Congress to pass gun control, he implemented a strategy of compelling, through administrative rules, the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration to submit lists of veterans and seniors, many of whom never had a day in court, to be included in the NICS database of people prohibited from owning a firearm. Only a state court, a federal (article III) court, or a military court, should ever be able to suspend your rights for any significant period of time.

While Republicans and supporters of the NRA may not fear the Trump Administration coming after their guns, it is obviously reckless to grant additional power and resources to future administrative states that may be quite hostile to the right to gun ownership. To put it simply, there is never a good reason to give Federal agencies the power the revoke an individual's ability to lawfully purchase a weapon without due process.

Further, if one needed an example of how dangerous it is to centralize gun legislation in Washington DC, look no further to what gun owners in states like Ohio and Hawaii are currently facing. Both states, having recently legalized the use of medical marijuana, have placed those who need it with the choice of either owning a gun or receiving life-improving medicine.

In 2011, the Federal government sent a letter to licensed gun dealers reiterating that marijuana users were prohibited from owning a gun – even if it they have a medical prescription. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld this decision last year. Hawaii, which requires gun registration, has gone as far as to sendingletters to permitted gun owners with marijuana prescriptions requiring they turn over their weapon. While the state is currently asking for "voluntary cooperation," it could be a matter of time before it turns into compulsory compliance.

While the simplicity provided by nationalizing laws is an understandable appeal, especially if you're a gun owner who frequently travels, political centralization is never the answer. By supporting this flawed attempt at "National Concealed Carry Reciprocity," the NRA and their supporters in the House have sided with the power of Federal agencies over the Second Amendment rights of Americans.
 
Respectfully this is bull doody. Fix NICS dies not empower anyone to add people to the list that do not belong there. This is typical GOA fearmongering to take your hard earned money to fight a problem that doesn't exist.

Don't fall for it.
 
I disagree, as a libertarian expanding the power of government is evil in any form but especially insidious when it comes to control a constitutional right which is exactly what the background check system is. $750 million given to the FBI to scrutinize whether someone should be allowed their constitutional right is an infringement, expansion of power and wrong
 
I disagree, as a libertarian expanding the power of government is evil in any form but especially insidious when it comes to control a constitutional right which is exactly what the background check system is. $750 million given to the FBI to scrutinize whether someone should be allowed their constitutional right is an infringement, expansion of power and wrong
THIS DOES NOT EXPAND THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT.

IT FUNDS THE EXISTING MANDATE.

if you want to tell the antis you're for enforcing the existing laws THIS is what that looks like.

There is no creeping incrementalism here.

This benefits you and me and every other gun owner that wants our existing laws enforced.
 
I do not understand the level of support this bill is gaining.

Someone said in the other thread that this is like giving libs a cookie to "stfu" and sit in the corner. To me it looks like gun owners are the ones taking the bait.

Not one inch means exactly that. I'll support more laws when the gooberment and agencies learn to enforce existing law.

Edit: I'll stop there before I get banned for having an unpopular opinion.
 
THIS DOES NOT EXPAND THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT.

IT FUNDS THE EXISTING MANDATE.

if you want to tell the antis you're for enforcing the existing laws THIS is what that looks like.

There is no creeping incrementalism here.

This benefits you and me and every other gun owner that wants our existing laws enforced.
It's disappointing to see gun owners across the country buying into the unfounded fear of this law. Not a single one of them can point to a clause or sentence in either one of the bills that places more restrictions on gun owners, yet there is tremendous outcry about the bills being anti-gun.

I was one of the people initially against this but changed my mind after reading both bills. It is NOT a federal permit, nor is there any federal control of permits - period.
 
RANT ... A Difficult Truth ... 50 Years Experience ... Objective ...

The failed to understand vitally important point here is that ANY continuation of the TOTALLY FAILED NICS is a continued violation of civil rights, due process and an affront to the Second Amendment. The NRA is the enemy of freedom. Please think this through.

The NRA WANTS the NICS to continue? The NRA wants the NICS expanded? Wow! Why does the NRA want no legal due process?

Yes I have a dog in this. Again, the NRA is part of the problem and not part of the solution. How many helicopters do we have to send? All you NRA supporters please wake up. Look into that mirror and stare hard. Self critical examination. The NRA is evil.

Has the NRA in fact signed off on every major piece of Federal Gun Control legislation for the last 50 years? Yep?

Amazing that the liberal commie socialist left thinks the NRA is the bad guy because of what the NRA does about guns. Perhaps I am looking at this from the ultra conservative Libertarian point of view and I also believe the NRA is the bad guy. Opposite ends.

For those curious I am a pragmatic Agnostic. Not religious. Do not smoke. Do not drink alcohol. Don't do drugs. I am a true Rip Van Winkle. A dinosaur. Ale Opp. Love classical music,, a long walk, good cooking and beautiful smart lovely older ladies. :) :)

Respectfully.
 
"The failed to understand vitally important point here is that ANY continuation of the TOTALLY FAILED NICS is a continued violation of civil rights, "

Yeah... No. its not. NICS works well but won't if the names of prohibited people aren't added to the list. This bill does that. It doesn't cast a wide net or add people because they need help with finances. This bill is about making the good, existing law better.

Claiming it will give them a tool to add whole classes of new prohibited people is simple a bald faced lie and people buying into that is just sad. Being s libertarian means thinking, not falling for every click bait lie one encounters.

Fix NICS purs bad guys into the database. Not those us that ought not be there.
 
Listen to what you just said. Makes existing law better? What you are also saying is that let's make bad existing anti Second Amendment laws worserer? You are suggesting anti gun laws are good and more anti gun laws are better than good? Good-er-er?

Respectfully. Kinda like saying the Nazis were good because they cleaned up Germany. Well, just how did they do that? You are saying bad laws are OK and let us make them more OK? That is what I am hearing. How about no bad anti gun laws at all?

Respectfully.
 
NICS is not anti-second amendment. It is in everyone's best interest to make sure that people who are prohibited from owning guns are in fact barred from buying guns.

Your rights to own guns end when you commit a felony. Read Heller.

The argument that there can be no limits to who owns guns is simply unhinged and not based in the constitution or 230 years of case law or even going back to the English Bill of Rights.
 
This law does not add anybody new to the restricted persons list. It does not expand NICS. It does not ban "bump stocks." It does not disarm anybody. It does require agencies to report prohibited persons to NICS and requires that those reports are accurate, and provides funding so that it actually happens. Unless you are against the idea of background checks in general this is not a bad bill, and if you are this bill doesn't change anything and we get national reciprocity so net win.
 
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Any gun restriction laws mean NOTHING to people who intend to use a gun for unlawful purposes. All gun laws only affect the law biding. Even though some of the most horrific shooting events were caused by legally bought guns. You will NEVER stop a person hell bent on shooting people for what ever reason. Putting a death sentence on a felon in possession of a gun would be a good start ~~ draw back is they'll shoot more LEOs before allowing themselves to be caught.
Giving the goverment any power now can and will result in loss of constitutional rights down the road.
Look @ brown stain /Hill turd/and flakey OB and their attitude towards guns. Next election could end up with BAD results for gun ownership.:(:(:(
 
Respectfully ...

We are never going to agree with expanded NICS. Imagine a data base PROHIBITING SUSPECTED citizens from stepping up onto the soap box and speech-a-fying about certain subjects. Nope ... you can not have freedom of Speech. Not that speech!

You are only suspected of giving the wrong speech. You are now on a prohibited list from making any speeches. NICS list.

Or .... NOPE ... you can't go to the church of your choice and worship God in your fashion because that God is not on the good guy list. You gotta be a good guy to believe in your God. If prohibited with no due legal process ... you can NOT worship ANY GOD!!

You are only suspected of believing in the wrong God. Or no God. You can no longer believe in your God. Sorry. NICS list.

OR ... security and privacy in your own home. Security in your papers. The list goes on and on. Why do we even put up with ANY infringement of our Second Amendment? AND ... WHY is government going after all the guns? Please think it through.

A student of world history can give you the answer. We will agree not to agree on this one. Wow!

Respectfully.
 
Respectfully ...

We are never going to agree with expanded NICS. Imagine a data base PROHIBITING SUSPECTED citizens from stepping up onto the soap box and speech-a-fying about certain subjects. Nope ... you can not have freedom of Speech. Not that speech!

You are only suspected of giving the wrong speech. You are now on a prohibited list from making any speeches. NICS list.

Or .... NOPE ... you can't go to the church of your choice and worship God in your fashion because that God is not on the good guy list. You gotta be a good guy to believe in your God. If prohibited with no due legal process ... you can NOT worship ANY GOD!!

You are only suspected of believing in the wrong God. Or no God. You can no longer believe in your God. Sorry. NICS list.

OR ... security and privacy in your own home. Security in your papers. The list goes on and on. Why do we even put up with ANY infringement of our Second Amendment? AND ... WHY is government going after all the guns? Please think it through.

A student of world history can give you the answer. We will agree not to agree on this one. Wow!

Respectfully.
This bill doesn't add suspected felons to the prohibited persons list. It doesn't add anybody to the restricted persons list. The only thing this bill does is ensure that felons and domestic abusers names actually get added to the NICS list. There is no new due process violation. You can argue that NICS and background checks in general are unconstitutional but this bill doesn't change anything and we get national reciprocity out of it.
 
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"This bill doesn't change anything"

Umm, what's the point then?

I'm astonished by this sudden lack of foresight by many on this sight and the utter sheepish faith that government won't completely f this entire thing up-if not already totally screwed.

This bill IS that "common sense gun reform" you guys are always tooting your horn about. Libs (to include most republicans) have found the bait that works and don't be surprised when we're all in the pan being fried.
 
Respectfully ...

We get nothing out of it. National reciprocity regulated by the Federal Government. Regulated. ANOTHER regulation. You may see some advantage. I only see the potential pitfalls. Please understand that historically speaking any governmental regulation quickly or eventually becomes a governmental prohibition. PARTICULARLY firearm regulations.

This is another Federal Second Amendment regulation. Very dangerous. They are dangling the carrot. The whip remains handy.

Respectfully. Wow! :(
 

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